If you look at a graph showing the periods of which I used to go on dates for marriage purposes you will notice something very startling, almost every date I have ever been on took place in the winter months, many people tell me they date in the summer, it’s warm out and holding hands with that girl you’re into is a nice feeling when you’re walking around the city in a warm summer eve, I think exactly the opposite.
I usually date when I’m bored or lonely, I can remember many times surfing the frumster black hole because I was simply bored, the weather was poor, it got dark before I got home from work or I simply felt lonely, but I haven’t felt any of this as of late. I am grateful to have finally found a situation in which I am fully content, like life is finally making sense and coming together, but I catch myself because I know if it’s good now, it would be that much better with a life partner, but like most people who end up being older singles – I simply don’t feel like entering the fiery pit of hell we call dating.
I generally hate dating, it used to be interesting when I could write about it, but now that everyone knows who am I actually have to go on the date and refrain from writing about it, which means I have to be present on the date, which I means I have to put on nice clothing, put on deodorant and shave (not really considering the girls I go out with aren’t much into that, but I do it anyway) I have to actually make an impression and join the real world when dating and I really don’t like that, I hate putting my best foot forward crap, I hate refraining from my normal self which is anything but.
But I am starting to think along the lines of forcing myself to date so I don’t end up 40 and single (which doesn’t sound half bad to me, which may be part of my problem, being single is a lot of fun if you really take advantage of life and finding a girl who really wants to take advantage of it with you is hard) so I need to force myself to date, so where to start?
Frumster doesn’t really work and besides one of my favorite activities to do with Frumster and Jdate is find out who the people behind the profiles actually are – not really much a challenge considering most people use their profile name for other stuff like social networking sites and forums and bypassing the paying function. I haven’t played with Saw You At Sinai, but I’m thinking of it just to try it out.
I’m wondering if any of you have this issue of life being too fun to even think about dating, I think I dated most when I lived in Albany and that was because I was dirt poor and couldn’t afford to ski in the winter and life was a bit boring, I had 3 different steady girlfriends while I lived there and they were all during the winter, in fact, until 2 years ago I never went on a date or had a girlfriend in the summer or spring months.
This post is an example of what is wrong about caring about the here and now. As such I offer you a few scenarios into your future:
1) You become complacent and never get married;
2) You reach the age of 40 after living your life only caring about what
3) You become one of those pathetic older men who suddenly realizes that he wants children and he only approaches the hot 23 year olds without realizing he is out of his element;
4) You reach an age where the pool of women available to you are divorced, widowed (
with their own baggage ) or so offbeat that no one wants to buy into them; or
5) You develop a rep of being so self centered that nobody with any self esteem of sanity would be interested in you.
In the meanwhile I hope that you do some thinking while you ride your bike in the nice climate. Do it before you become arthritic and creaky.
All I ask is that you do not waste some poor unsuspecting young woman’s time.
I’m trying to figure out what’s wrong with his approach.
1) He doesn’t want to get married so he never gets married. And what’s wrong with that?
2) Not sure where this sentence was going before it got chopped off.
3) OK, that could be a problem. But if he’s got any brains he’ll get rejected a few times and either find a woman a little older who still wants children or give up the idea.
4) We all have baggage.
5) As with #1, if he’s not interested in marriage or a long-term girlfriend he’s not interested. If that changes he’ll have to do things differently.
If he enjoys exercising and the outdoors more power to him. He’ll be healthy and strong for a long time which is better for him than sitting on his butt all day.
All I ask is that you do not waste some poor unsuspecting young woman’s time.
This is the only reasonable objection to his choices you’ve made so far.
She’s suggesting that he realize the inevitable, and recognize what he really wants for the future, and potentially now (if he gets himself thinking).
How do you do the italics btw?
I understand what she’s saying but simply disagree. Not everyone wants to marry or is suited for it. And while late 20s is ancient in the frum world there are plenty of people outside it who get married when they are older or not at all.
This blog permits a few HTML tags including i, b, blockquote and so on. The a and img tags get your post relegated to the moderation bin.
I agree with Lukwarm Channie in that you should NOT think you’re young forever (and youth is a PRECIOUS commodity when dating, even for women!) and work hard to find your shidduch now any way you can!!! For me, when I was 27 (old maid by ffb standards) I worked only part time so I could attend classes, dances, events etc. in the eve. Finally, I met someone who was skeptical about religion in an AISH class, but that’s what we both had in common!!
HESHY, I’m sure you have many readers who admire you already through your blog; there must be some girl out there… intelligent and somewhat ffb like you, who can connect with you on a blogging level before you can actually meet. Yes, I know that men are big on appearances, but the initial connection –spiritual, literary, whatever you call it — could be made right here in front of your computer!!
FFB'[s usually don;t do it, it tends to be converts, BT’s or girls who are frum curious but not really too frum.
that’s exactly what you need then…go for them!!
4/5 of my kids haven’t married, and that’s bad news for the world and for them. They’re missing out on some wonderful things. I love seeing my married daughter as a mother. It’s not about me being a grandmother. I loved it when my kids were young and my life revolved around theirs.
G-d willing you’ll find the right girl, and you’ll have a great life together.
thats heshy’s point exactly. It doesn’t seem like he needs to find the right girl to be happy. being single is fine with him
Unless the weather sucks and I don;t have good tea around
there are many different types of happiness one can experience in this world. there is always the one up- this is not to say your happiness now is diminished but you dont know how much happier you could be until you are. -its like soup, why settle when you can select?
I think that some people need or want marriage for personal needs/development, but to many other people marriage is unnatural. The only reason for it is if you have some sort of ideal, like a belief in continuing your society by producing more members for it, or a divine mandate of procreation.
Without that, why not have a mass friends w/benefits situation; screw and abort?
I totally get it-really, I do. The only question I have for you, Hesh, and others content being single is: Doesn’t a brother need his balls licked a little? Now if you are modern, live in the UWS and go on tefillin dates, then I get it- but if not, how can you really be content not getting pu$$y on a regular basis. A man has needs. That’s all I’m saying.
I’m kind of asexual like that, I really don’t have those needs – my needs lie in intellectual and spiritual stimulation. It’s a real blessing that God hasn’t given me sex as a vice.
Then you need a (jewish) woman who’ll jump YOU first. You never know, she could be the right one!!!
Suppose the “right” right woman turns up but she’s not Jewish?
then she’s not the right one.
She could convert.
if you forced to go on a date against your inclination then your partner will not have a good time. you can’t force yourself to fall in love but you should make an effort to go out to different new places and meet different new people and… see what happens. i think everybody should just relax and have fun. Heshy is young and cute, he will meet the right woman and have frumsatire babies. all of us impatient readers have to wait until he is ready. 😛
LOL, I believe converting because you want to marry a Jew is a specific no-no, unless of course you’re a Trump heiress or you’re willing to have a threesome with Rabbi Tropper.
Ooooh… Below the belt!
:^D
Now I am just waiting for all the responses of, “why do you assume that cuz u r single u ain’t gettin pu$$y. 1) I am talking about regular amounts to keep u not backed up-which presumably is only happening in a marriage or committed relationship. And 2) Let’s assume even if u rnt that shomer, still if u r not going on tefillin dates, you really aren’t having ur needs met-yeah, maybe a little extra on the side-a little ice cream dessert here and there-but not a daily dose.
Different strokes for different folks, I’m not a horny dude – I exaggerate these things because exaggeration during my writing about it gets people on edge, but in truth, I would much prefer a good bike ride to a good lay.
Therein lies the answer…the bike seat is cutting off blood circulation to the most important part of your anatomy! 🙂
My brother got married in August to a wonderful woman, his absolute basherte, soulmate. It was the first marriage or engagement for both of them. He was 44 and she 46. They are very happy, and even though kids don’t appear to be in the picture, they’re glad they made the commitment, and grateful to have found each other. You’re really never too old.
Right on, Batsheva!
No offense but that attitude is not going to help you get married. I understand that the dating scene is not pleasant nor exciting and being single past the age of 26 sucks but if you don’t like the shidduch dating venue then don’t use it.Sometimes these dating websites can be an exercise of futility. I believe the best way to find your bashert is to be introduced to by friends. Its only a matter of how many of your friends are willing to go out of their way for you. I guess you should do what works best for you.
Have you read what he’s writing? Heshy’s not interested in getting married. He’s not looking for The One. Your advice would be great if he were.
I;m interested in getting married and I keep my eyes peeled, but unlike many people my age in the frum community, I enjoy life so much that it’s tough to actually veer off the course of goodness and recognize the need to date.
when i was in grad school i only went on dates during winter break, spring break, and sometimes in the summer (although like you I usually had better things to do in the summer…like going camping). Met my husband during winter break, in early january 2007.
as for putting your best foot forward..yeah you don’t want to drop your crazyness on a girl on the first date, but I’ve found it’s much more effective to just be yourself- then you attract the people who are attracted to YOU rather than people who are attracted to your best foot.
Hesh,
(at the risk of sounding “dad-like”, I am going to tell you what I think.)
Instead of thinking “Do I want to get married”, why don’t you think “Can I get married, be happy, and function as a responsible husband/father”.
If the answer is yes, then just go for it. It’s what you want in the long run either way. So if you CAN do it, then why the heck wouldn’t you?
Why is such a vital aspect of your life being treated like an optional trip to Six flags, to be determined by “Am I going to have a good time”?
You only live once, you simply can’t afford to let huge decisions like this be made by the ‘adolescent’ in you.
One could arrive at exactly the opposite conclusion by the same logic.
There are plenty of people who marry because their parents want to or because it’s expected or because everyone else does. They end up in unhappy, passionless marriages which are not a service to them or their spouses. Perhaps they’ll have a couple of kids in the hopes that it will give them purpose and fix everything. It seldom does. If a person wants to get married then by all means he should do so. If not, why make two people miserable just to satisfy someone else’s expectations?
who are you insinuating gets married in order to please a ‘third’ party?
even the chassidim who only go on three dates dont solely base their decision on their parents- ultimately, it is THEIR (the ones getting married) decision!
How exactly do you arrive at this with my argument?
Every part of my life is treated as what is best for me, as is marriage, yes I want to get married, and yes I think I would like to be a father and a husband – the issue is that when life is so exciting I don;t even think of this stuff.
As many of my friends have said, in order to find a partner I have to force myself, because most normal people don;t have such exciting lives and need to get married to create some form of excitement. It;s almost as if I were cursed with contentment and a life full of thrill, I have settled down and have a career, the only thing missing is a hiking partner I could sleep with and maybe make some babies with – that would be nice.
Good response Yankel……when I used to teach, some of my students used to conduct risky behavior (like drunk driving) and when I’d ask them why, they replied, “Well, you only live once!” Of course, my response to that was “Well, you only die once.”
To drive home this point, this morning I heard some sad news, not that it’s particularly relevant but still, worthy of note. My daughter used to babysit for a couple when she was in college and this morning she found out that the young father, in his early 30s, died of a heart attack yesterday in a Northern California airport. They have two young children. Of course, we never know what Hashem has in store for us. I suspect Hershy has a fun personal life that appropriately he does not and should not share with us and that in good time he’ll find what he’s looking for. I think he’s a great writer and look forward to future entries.
Hershy, if writing is your passion then you should find a way you can make a living at it as there is nothing more satisfying than loving your work. Perhaps Hershy will be the Philip Roth of the Frum world….. Perhaps he already is!
Rubin, I’m so sorry to hear about the young father. How terrible for the family, and I wish them well.
I know what you mean, Heshy. As a 36-year-old single male, my life is filled with work, travel, outdoor activities, and hobbies. I haven’t been on a date in almost a year, but I don’t really think about it, because I’m too busy. I may regret it in the future, when I’m still unmarried in another 15-20 years, but for now I’m happy.
Sorry guys, but this is exactly why MEN are COMMANDED to get married, while women aren’t. Yes, I too had a crazy life of travelling, fun, excitement, but I wasn’t fulfilled in my late 20’s because I knew I needed that giving element, but you guys really don’t WANT to GIVE. It’s too much of a headache!! It’s so much easier without having someone in the way to please all the time!!! Well, I have proof (my husband of 10 years) that marriage will make you a better person, with or without the EXCITEMENT that you think is so important in life.
Oh my gosh, I totally just thought of the best idea EVER to find an adequately Jewish girl who’s passionate about the same hiking, biking & camping lifestyle you prefer.
I’ll bet there’s tons of them in ALASKA!
This idea just came to me so I Googled “Jews in Alaska” (to make sure there actually are some), and the first thing that came up was a website stating that:
“The Jewish communities in Alaska are located in Anchorage, Fairbanks and Juneau. Estimates place the Jewish community at 6,000 for the whole state. Of these, 42% belong to the three synagogues, two in Anchorage and one in Fairbanks. Only 27% of American Jews belong to synagogues. In all of America, only 32% of Jews light Shabbat candles. In Alaska, 70% of Jews do that. Ninety one percent of Alaskan Jews observe Chanuka. Only 63% of American Jews observe that festival.”
Not only is any Jewish girl in her mid-20s who moves to (or elects to remain in) Alaska sure to be intrepid & outdoorsy, everyone’s probably been telling her for years she’s going to have to move to a big city to land a Jewish husband.
SO, when you show up you’d have the pick of the litter!
Women from Alaska say about the men up there “The odds are good, but the goods are odd.”
lol!
coincidentally, that’s what the boys in engineering school (learn, then earn!) say about the girls
Heshy I’m envious you don’t feel that need to get married. I would have enjoyed my single years a lot more had I not felt the lack of having that SOMEONE in my life. Its a true blessing that you love life so much. Enjoy it and if love is supposed to happen, it will happen.
I waited until my mid-30s before I got married. My advice to you Hershy is not to wait too long. Find your prospective mate the place where the most Jews live. Unlike Ell, I would not recommend traveling to Alaska to find your backpacking semi-Frum or BT hippie chick. I tried that approach during my 20s and I’ll equate it with fishing for for Golden Trout (since you been in the Sierras I trust you know what fish I’m talking about) in the Dead Sea.
Many of my single years were spent living in fairly small non-Jewish communities and I certainly enjoyed backpacking (sometimes with friends sometimes alone) and fishing in some of the most rural areas of upstate New York, Texas, Louisiana, Montana, Wyoming, California, etc. By the ways, I still do. I grew up in an Orthodox Jewish community in upstate New York were most members were not really Frum but utterly wonderful.
When I lived in non-Jewish rural areas away from my hometown, I longed for your Yiddishkeit and to be perfectly frank, I got tired of being known as the token Jew and having to drive 50 miles to find the nearest Shul. Even when I went to the Shuls, most of them were to reform for my liking One of the rabbis was a mail-order Rabbi who invited me to a crab dinner on Rosh Hashanah in Louisiana….gevalt.
The one thing I learned is that you can see many great places and views and take many great photographs and catch many great fish alone and contemplate solitude; however, just like the fellow in the movie ‘Into the Wild”discovered way too late (after he had accidentally poisoned himself with a toxic plant), the most important thing in life is to have someone to share life experiences with. Ultimately, when you see a new life that you created, coming out of the body of the one you love, your whole perspective on everything is changed. Indeed, there are many places to see and paths to ride, yet they all are miniscule in value when compared to the creation of life and the first words spoken to you by your child. By the ways, both my daughters love camping and hiking…… okay, the wife not so much.
Ooops Ell, my Alaska comment should really have been addressed to Mahla. Sorry.
LOL, see my shidduch idea’s so great it’s already being attributed to others! Rubin, did you seriously already try the Alaska plan? ;^D
Mahla,
No, I tried it in the Adirondack Mountains of upstate New York for five years, in south Louisiana for four years, in Texas for two years… backpacking in the Montana and Wyoming Rockies alone for a summer. My non-Jewish friends called me the wandering Jew. I lived in small communities where there were 5000 people living in an area 44 miles long and I was the only Jew. It was very hard to connect spiritually and there were times when the solitude was deafening. I’m sure that sounds weird but I know some can relate.
I was going to point that out Rubin. Good post though. I do think there’s nothing as amazing as sharing your life with someone you love. But I also think its good not to need someone else. But maybe its not good not to need. Aren’t we supposed to be dependant on each other? My guess is when Heshy finds a girl he’s truly in love with, he’ll WANT to be with her, more than just hiking or whatnot.
Not needing someone else to share your life with is fine as long as you are independently wealthy or do not enjoy physical contact. In today’s age, being a great writer and a pauper is not too sexy for most women. Money is the great social lubricant that allows flexibility for any lifestyle….so maybe Hershy is independently wealthy and can afford to choose his own path. He is clearly a creative writer and very funny and certainly many women love funny men….wealthy funny men, all the better.
Speaking of funny, it’s funny for me to see beautiful Frum women with spectacular wigs and clothing at the local Shul events and then sit quietly while the men in black hats and beards promote their views of value. I do not in any way mean to demean the lifestyle, it is certainly not my gig.
Hershy may have a great road bike, but when I was in my 20s, if it came down to hugging a nice woman with warm eyes or hugging the cold metal frame on my bike, there was no question in my mind as to what I’d rather be hugging. But I guess in the Frum world, the coed hugging part when you’re single is not too well accepted and so maybe a bike is better for now.
You make a common mistake. Women can see past current situations. From what I’ve read and observed, women tend to be attracted to men that they perceive have power or are likely to have power eventually. Since most men who marry marry before they’ve achieved financial or influential success, it’s clear that women can view a man and extrapolate (or think they can) where that man will be in the future.
Money is definitely not the only lubricant. Wit, brains, and confidence go quite far (and are far more attractive) in social interactions.
Drum,
I absolutely agree with what you said and that perceived power combined with wit, brains and confidence can make an attractive opportunity on both sides of the equation; male or female. Initial attraction often simply comes down to chemistry, two pairs of eyes meet and a connection to the soul is made. Where it goes from there…is often uncharted territory.
My earlier point is that post-college or post-yeshiva men that are independently wealthy at a young age certainly have an advantage in the dating/mating game. The prospective mate does not have to worry about financial security in the normal realm of “Will he provide for me and our children downstream?” situations.
Rubin,
I disagree with your chemistry viewpoint. There are many factors involved other than two pairs of eyes meeting. I grant that in some, few, situations that type of thing occurs, but it’s the minority of relationship beginnings.
Of course, all things being equal, most people would choose someone who has more money or the potential to make more money. However, I was responding to this sentence: “In today’s age, being a great writer and a pauper is not too sexy for most women.”
Certainly in the Frum world, there are probably many factors that go into finding a good mate. Ultimately yes, it’s more involved than just two eyes meeting. But even then, don’t underestimate the importance of first impressions. To me, when I was a young man, if the initial attraction was not there, there would be no likelihood of any further prospect for marriage. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
In a parallel manner for some women today, if there is some uncertainty regarding financial security or stability regarding the marriage candidate, a man’s good looks and personality will simply play second fiddle. That’s just my perception of today’s reality and I understand not all people subscribe to this view. But I would say, that most Jewish women consider financial position as a major factor in finding their mate.
Fall and Winter are usually better dating periods for adults. People tend to be more settled than in the Summer and the long nights make socializing more important.
Physically, it’s more pleasurable to have a companion during the colder months. The Me’am Loez quotes that “god” arranged for Esther to come to Achashverush’s bed for the first time on a cold “Tevet” night because that would bring more physical pleasure to the human king.
“I generally hate dating, it used to be interesting when I could write about it, but now that everyone knows who am I actually have to go on the date and refrain from writing about it, which means I have to be present on the date, which I means I have to put on nice clothing, put on deodorant and shave (not really considering the girls I go out with aren’t much into that, but I do it anyway) I have to actually make an impression and join the real world when dating and I really don’t like that, I hate putting my best foot forward crap, I hate refraining from my normal self which is anything but.”
Considering putting deodorant on and shaving as meritorius for dates ought to thin the herd considerably no matter how fascinating you are. Probably you should put that out as a disclaimer to all contenders. 🙂
That’s pretty funny Homeschool! In Los Angeles, there’s a ton of Jewish hippie chicks he could tap into and be perfectly at home.
I suspect Herhy is really in love with his Blog and at this point in his life doesn’t have enough time to invest in developing a serious relationship with someone. Because that’s what it takes. From my perspective, shaving and putting on deodorant are daily self respect functions just like brushing one’s teeth or taking a shower.