If you ever ask someone who’s of chabad stock if they are chabad, they will generally respond to you that they’re just Jewish and that they don’t like labels. No one likes labels, but for the sake of deciding where to daven, which restaurants you will eat at, or where to send your kids to school, we need labels. Sure, it’s unfortunate that labels transcend the informing that we need them to do and become a way of generalizing and judging, but this doesn’t mean that you cannot be labeled. You can consider yourself whatever you want, but in general your practices will tell another story. This is why I’m slightly disturbed by the latest in this battle against labels, this time in the form of chabad propaganda.
The Jewish Week has an article by an obviously chabad Rabbi (you can tell instantly without even looking at the name or picture) about how he’s not Orthodox. He can say he isn’t Orthodox all day, but this doesn’t make it so. There are general rules as to what is considered Orthodox and it’s safe to say that as a chabadnick he doesn’t violate said rules. If he really wants to transcend those labels, he needs to clearly state that he will eat at non-Orthodox homes, daven at non-Orthodox shuls, and allow women to make kiddush, or motzi, or read from the Torah. He didn’t say any of this, all he is claiming is the classic “we’re not orthodox, reform, conservative, we’re just Jewish”. It sounds great, I wish it were so, but within our religion we have a lot of sub groups, levels of observance, beliefs, and so on.
I wonder if the author would consider those with non-Orthodox conversions to be Jewish? I wonder lots of things, but mostly I wonder why Orthodox Jews feel the need to write such falsehoods in a measure to try and convince us that they are just Jewish, when in reality they are anything but.
These articles always seem to call for unity, but in the end they want everyone to be Orthodox, just without labeling them as such. I know it’s hard for chabadnicks to accept the truth, but they are Orthodox and no matter how stylish, funky, non-insular, and hipster they get, they will still be Orthodox.
Find out more on 4torah.com
True, of course, but the point that I think does come across successfully in the Chabad world is that they don’t look down on you for not being Orthodox. Sure they practice Orthodoxy, but they also practice live and let live.
They practice live-and-let-live ONLY towards the non-observant – they have very little tolerance for non-Chabad orthodox.
“They practice live-and-let-live ONLY towards the non-observant – they have very little tolerance for non-Chabad orthodox.” That’s a trite accusation. Examples please?
There is plenty of tolerance and love for individual Jews. Often, the welcome will be especially warm for someone that did “nothing” Jewish. Chabad doctrine is very open to the idea that not everyone had an opportunity to learn about Judaism, that not everyone is currently observant and that people may struggle to get to a higher spiritual level.
They are NOT tolerant of non-Orthodox movements. The Rebbe made a point of persuading Israel not to recognize non-Orthodox conversions under the Law of Return. Chabad, as a movement, is not receptive to Rabbi Slifkin and considers his views on Bereshit (Genesis) and creation to be heresy.
In short, they can accept that some people do “less”, but cannot accept that it’s fine for someone to hold differently if the position is not supported by a Chabad or generally accepted Orthodox interpretation of halacha.
This is a joke right?
Not at all. They are tolerant of non-observant because they see the potential of their becoming Chabad. People who are non-Chabad orthodox they at best don’t understand, and at worst see as a threat.
Proselytizing?
agreed
I take issue with what you say and I am absolutely offended by your dis-honest remarks.
I personally served as a Bochur on Shlichus in the Chabad House of Venice and PERSONALLY welcomed thousands of Orthodox, Frum, Yeshivish, Chassidish Jews without discrimination.
I could not offer them Tefillin so I would offer a cake or cup of Coffee.
This was even though many (around 50-60%) reciprocated in a very negative way, sometimes even brazenly arguing or making fun of Chabad shita in the Chabad House while I was hosting them.
Thought there was the other 40% who were mentschen.
When speaking to other Chabad Shluchim they all related the same experiences with Frum Jews. Give them, and they spit at you in your own home!!!
So to have the nerve and claim that Chabad doesnt welcome the Frum when we do and they spit back at us…????
I think chabad is incredibly welcoming, I’m a huge fan of chabad, I think they are probably practicing the best way you can practice. However, my beef is this new age of calling yourself non-orthodox and its ingenuous to do such things.
Oh and I’m a meshichist btw.
I understand what Teldon is trying to say. He has a point.
But I also do understand your point about “this new age of calling yourself non-orthodox and its ingenuous to do such things”
Thought I would not go far to call it ingenuous.
Btw, don’t you know we all are Meshichists 🙂
Of course, Yechi Hamelech, except I hold that the Mittler Rebbe is moshiach.
Chill bro, he just doesn’t understand your Christian methods and beliefs.
OK. so don’t come to the Christian Houses…. Stop skirting the issue.
The Chareidi/Frum community has got decide. They can’t have their cake (Talk against Chabad) and eat it…
Not to mention the utter lack of Mentschlichkiet.
They don’t practice “live and let live” at all.
One of Chabad’s main goals is to spread orthodoxy, hence countless Chabad houses and shuchim in places one would never expect. Chabad thrives on missionizing non-orthodox Jews. The Rebbe’s goal was to bring Torah to people, with the idea that the parents would be reached through the children.
According to the Union of Orthodox Rabbis of the United States and Canada (Agudath Harabonim), the the Lubavitcher Rebbe stated “The doctrines and ideologies of the Reform and Conservative movements, can only be classed in the category of heretical movements which have plagued our people at one time or another, only to disappear eventually, having no basis in our everlasting Torah, the Torah of truth, the living Torah, Toras Emes, Toras Chaim.” This sounds more like live, judge, and missionize others, than live and let live.
My children became religious through chabad. Lets focus on the good in oeganizations and in people. Lets all look inward instead of concerning ourselves with ways of life not concerning us! Lets wage war against neo nazis and other common enemies.
Precisely why kiruv and missionizing are so wrong. People should focus on bettering themselves before trying to change the lives of those who cross their paths.
I agree.
Spending your whole life exclusevely on “bettering yourself” is selfish. You have to reach out to others, who were not furtunate to be exposed to the truth of the Torah or real Jewish education. We are supposed to emulate Hashem, He is a giver, so should we be giving to others, which is, btw, a great way to better ourselves.
You realize that this is the same argument used by Christian missionary groups, right?
If Chabad was so live and let live, why are they trying to put tefillin on folks, get them to light shabbos candles, and get them to keep shabbos. Seems like they’re trying to make people religious.
It isn’t so much “making” people religious, as “making” people do a mitzvah. The concept is that the essence of every Jew (the pintele yid) wants to do mitzvos. By providing the mitzvah for the Jew to do, the hope is to excite the essence to do more.
When we get a fellow Jew to shake a lulav on Succos, make a l’chaim on Simchas Torah, or light Chanukah lights, no one seriously considers that this will “make” them religious. There is a hope that the person’s essence will become excited enough for the person to want to explore more of what Judaism is.
I have no objections with Chabad, but lets not equate lulav shaking (de’oraisa), chanukah lights (de’rabbonon) with making a lechaim on simchat torah (de’what???)
“The concept is that the essence of every Jew (the pintele yid) wants to do mitzvos.” Hilarious
I think what you can call this is a salesman omitting truths but not directly lying. In there world view they see themselves practicing Judaism the right way and only way everyone should. By extension there can be no orthodox or none orthodox just Chabad and not Chabad.
a few years ago chabadnik told my ex that ‘if you’re not chabad, you’re not jewish’… of course that is only one guy.. but still…
Yes there are labels, but it’s not necessary. Chabad deals in depth of the of someone’s spiritual life, everything else is pretty much the same. When it comes to school it’s not about labels it’s about if the school is good not if Chabad or sifard if a school is good and has great fundamentals then it doesn’t matter all labels are an excuse for people to fight b/c of our ego or some may call it yazerharah when kid goes to school it’s not just the Hebrew and English study’s it’s the envierment that they are that shapes them and molds them by the teachers and the students that’s the hard part to find a good school if people can learn how to get along instead of labels the world would be in a better place I will have to disagree on the necessary evil of labels
You confuse the term Orthodox with Jewishly observant. Orthodox connotates that there are various forms of Judaism and Torah observance. Chabad believes that orthodox is a label. True, in the strict sense of the term within the framework of American Judaism, Orthodox means that you observe Torah in the most “Orthodox” manner you can however, Orthodox is a label which the world takes as a form of Judaism just like (L’havdil) Conservative and Reform “Judaism”. Chabad looks to dispel the label “Orthodox” and keep the real term which is Jewish. Judaism has only one torah (shivim panim l’torah within the framework of TORAH). Hence, I, being Chabad, will never label myself Orthodox.
Well said.
Here’s a dictionary definition of Orthodox.
—————————————————
Merriam Webster Dictionary
or·tho·dox adjective \??r-th?-?däks\
1: accepted as true or correct by most people : supporting or believing what most people think is true
2: accepting and closely following the traditional beliefs and customs of a religion
—————————————————
The 1st definition clearly does not pertain to Orthodox Jews. The 2nd clearly does.
For a Chabbad person to deny that they are Orthodox is to deny that they are “accepting and closely following the traditional beliefs” of their religion. Hmmm… I suspect that they may want to reconsider that claim…
The article uses the term Orthodox with a capital O. This connotates a label. While Chabad follows traditional and yes, even the orthodox level of Judaism, we will not label ourselves Orthodox (with a capital O). I suspect your life was irrevocably changed by Chabad – as was Heshy, who, at every chance he gets, benefits from Chabad one way or another.
So let me get this straight. You, Mendel G. are defending an article about this being an age of “post-denominational” Judaism by claiming that Chabad is the best denomination? Very persuasive…
Esp funny considering most readers here were all behind lopatin when he wrote that orthodoxy is only about self definition. If chbad isn’t allowed to be reform, then lopatin can’t just declare himself orthodox
I am a Lubavitcher Chossid and I practice live Judaism. I don’t “tolerate” any other jew, however I do love every jew. I don’t insist that every jew follow my lead, yet I believe that any jew can reach the highest level of their own jewishness if they choose to do so by being as authentic and genuine as they can be. If one can truly internalize that, then the prejudicial connotations of labels and categories melt away
yea but you’re still left with the “prejudicial” beliefs of Judiasm in respect to the non-“chosen” divine favoritism tribal diety.
Well, he could be right. If he’s a believer in the rebbe…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhmbCZSI_xc#t=73
I was raised Chabad. Let me tell you something. There is no way that Chabad practices ‘live and let live”. Are they accepting of non-religouis Jews that are potential candidates to prosletize? Of course, for every person they convert, they get some more brownie point on their score sheet. But the real test is how they treat the insiders, their children and neighbors. Unfornately, they do not pass this test at all. I had a traumatic experience with Chabad (not that it would have been better in any other ultra Orthodox Jewish group) every little detail we are constantly scolded on, and judged. If you wear the wrong shade of blue, you are judged. Your hairs too long, or too short. You daven at the wrong shul. Whatever. Suffice to say their philosophy is to accept outsiders AT THE EXPENSE OF THEIR OWN CHILDREN.
Chabad isn’t Orthodox the way Larry Craig isn’t gay.
Chabad’s almost universal meshichist belief takes them outside the pale of Orthodoxy according to many chareidi rabbonim (and some non-chareidim, but they have less balls in saying so), so in that sense many would agree (Rav Shach called the Rebbe insane). But Rabbi Mendel Teldon is speaking BS and he certainly considers himself Orthodox regardless of the other points he is trying to make.
There is much to be critical about Lubavitchers, but c’mon, you will never be turned away from a chabad house. Nor have experienced them pressuring anyone to become Orthodox, much less Chabadniks.
Unless you are friends with one and subjected to thier non-stop Jewish guilt.
I am a Chabadnik. I was makarved by my Shliach in Texas and my Uncle who is a Rabbi in Crown Heights is also a B.T. We live by a principle that the Alter Rebbe discusses in Tanya and that is simply that every Jew is “a part of God above mamash”. It is the rest of the frum world that looks at Lubavitchers with a sideways glance, not the other way around. I live primarily “Chassidic” neighborhood I find myself constantly being asked questions about our shita and sometimes feel like I am being put on the defense. It is the long peyos wearing friends of mine who are quick to say “I am just a stam Yid”. I do find myself welcome at all the shuls in my neighborhood and that is ahavos Yisrael which is one of the defining principles that the Chabad Rebbeim emphasized.
Religion the source of war and division in the name of book of racist fairytales.
Was this eloquent,well nuanced pronouncement of your’s written in ex-cathedra mode? You make a very convincing argument. Have you thought of joining some sort of debating society?
Facts are a stubborn thing.
I humbly ask Rabbi Teldon whether he feels (fellow…) Meshichistin deserve the label he undoubtedly has a great level of disdain for.
Please redact Zach’s comment to eliminate
His republishing of someone’s insubordinate
Words
Not every filthy utterance need be retweeted
Other than that, it’s all good
You can be Orthodox and think that women can or should make kiddush and hamotzi for men. Women and men are equally obligated in both of these mitzvot.
Come join us on Mars Heshy,
ChabadMars.com