Found this interesting piece on the blog To Kiss a Mezuzah and received permission to re-post here.
By Susan Esther Barnes
We Jews seem to have a lot of labels for ourselves these days. Reform, Conservative, Orthodox, Modern Orthodox, Chasidic, Renewal, Reconstructionist, Humanistic; the list goes on.
In some ways, the labels can be useful. If I’m visiting a synagogue for the first time, what label it gives itself can help me decide what to wear and how to behave once there. For example, in some synagogues I could probably show up in blue jeans and a t-shirt without feeling out of place. In some, I would be expected to wear at least a pair of slacks and a nice blouse. In others, I’d have to wear a long skirt, a long-sleeved blouse, and a wig or other hair covering.
Similarly, in some synagogues, I would be welcome wearing tefillin and a tallit, and in others I most certainly would not. In some, I would find women and men sitting together, and in others the men and women would sit in separate areas.
Therefore, knowing the denomination, or label, the synagogue identifies with helps me to prepare for my visit in a way that will lessen the chance that my clothing or behavior might result in an embarrassing faux pas.
On the other hand, even as the number of Jewish labels seem to be increasing, some people are rejecting such labels. Labels can be limiting. They can also lead to assumptions about the members which are not necessarily true. Some synagogues and prayer groups are using the terms “non-denominational” or “post-denominational” for themselves, although, of course, these too are labels.
One of the labels that has come to my attention in recent years is the term “Torah Jew.” My objection to this term is that currently it seems to be used only by Jews who others would most likely call Orthodox. The trouble I have with this is not that I think the Orthodox are not Torah Jews. It is clear to me that religious Orthodox Jews study and shape their actions according to their understanding of the Torah.
The problem I have with this term being applied only to Orthodox Jews is that it is equally clear to me that all other religious Jews also study and shape their actions according to their understanding of the Torah. We all read from identical copies of the same Torah scroll on Shabbat and at other services.
Applying the term “Torah Jew” to only one minority group implies they follow the Torah while the majority of religious Jews don’t. This is a falsehood, and a chilul hashem (desecration of God’s name). We may not all agree regarding how we interpret God’s intent, but we are all Torah Jews.
@the author, i agreat with u about the using labels to deciede what is appropirate to wear.
If you believe that there was an oral torah given at Sinai to explain the written one, then Jews who don’t follow it are not following the real Torah.
I would say that members of the Masorti and Reform movements in Israel have a bigger problem, in that they may be fully committed to G-d and Torah in their opinion, but they are not considered religious Jews (“dati”)
Youre confused. The only people ive heard refer to orthodox jews as “torah jews” are orthodox jews. You say that “implies they follow the Torah while the majority of religious Jews don’t.” On behalf of Orthodxy I apologize, for the implication, it should have been clearer. In Orthodx Judaism’s view (as a movement of course individuals will disagree, but I dont think those individuals use the label you are discussing so the post wasnt addressed to them) other ” religious jews” (from the context I assume you mean conservative, reform et al) Dont practice torah at all. We arent implying it we are outright saying it. Orthodoxy doesnt claim to be “inclusive” other forms of Judaism are not valid, are not Torah and their adherants are not “torah jews” While obviously still being Jews.
hope that clears things up.
> Applying the term “Torah Jew” to only one minority group implies they follow the Torah while the majority of religious Jews don’t.
That’s the whole point.
I have nowhere to vent about this, so I come here. Try to imagine a city in which there is a major donor whose family name is on all of the local shuls, mikvaot, etc. Next, attempt to reconcile this with the fact that he has run a crooked businesses. Then attempt to determine why on earth he gets honored all over and raised to the level of a tzaddik. It is clear that this is Un-Torah Judaism.
Welcome to planet Earth. Hope you enjoy your stay.
Orthodox, also, in a way discredits other branches of Judaism as well as all other faiths. It means “correct faith”. Personally, I prefer the term “practicing Jew”. It means I practice Jewish law and custom, the way I received it. You practice the way you received it. Some are just out of practice. And to me, it’s always a reminder that I’m just “practicing” – I never get it perfect. Nobody does.
Beautiful, Maidel! Just beautiful!
Well it was Reform Jews who came up with the name orthodox and they ment it sarcastically, so really it’s their own fault.
I didn’t know this, but it is really only secular Jews who I hear using this term. I always call myself frum or religious. Secular Jews call me observant or orthodox.
Rarely I hear traditional or Torah Jew- usually from people a little left of frum but right of secular- people in the middle.
Non-Jews call me “VERY religious Jewish person” or something like that. Always emphasizing the VERY.
Good article on defining “Ben Torah”
http://www.5tjt.com/featured-news/8046-the-bent-torah
There is no accurate label. They’re all approximations based on a critical mass of individuals who think roughly the same way. and of course, these labels are vey subjective in any case, and depend on one’s Jewish perspective.
But on the whole, I agree with the author. “Torah Judaism” is an exclusionary and condescening term. Unfortunately, that’s the entire point.
the term applies to those who understand SHAS in its entirety and how it’s incompatible with zionism in all forms
Oh, plz. This is your one defining characteristic of a “Torah Jew”? Not even the classic halachic measurement, one who keeps Shabbos and eats kosher? This excludes from the community of Torah true Judaism: 1. All Jews who are not actively anti-Zionist (which I presume means picketing a beauty salon in somebody else’s neighborhood, while wearing anti-Zionist buttons. The connection? Who cares?) 2. Any remaining Orthodox Jews who do not “understand Shas in its entirety”: not only the half of the population you would exclude from such education, but children and anyone who learns differently. Also the large contingent of people employed in the business world and manual labor, whom your own community has always recognized and honored for their contribution to institutions of learning and the kehilla in general. All these are not “Torah Jews” in your eyes. Perhaps you are the last living Torah Jew!
relax hes kidding, otherwise hes an outcast who most “torah jews” view as much a torah jew as the most reformed lesbian women rabbi eating chazer fried in cheese sauce on yom kippur . I assume that categorises all reform 🙂
uhm pretty sure i didn’t exclude all those. just those who know stay away from the baal hasoton of zionism and away from the derech of similar pseudo-judaism. we pray for anyone who strays from the path of daas torah emmes.
Dont take him seriously, hes probably joking.
If he isnt well, Orthodox Jews of all shapes and colors look at him and his evil depraved ilk about as much “Torah Jews” as a le$bian reform rabbi who eats chazer fried in cheese sauce on yom kippur
I am also not a fan of labels but if I had to be put in a category for argument sake, I would consider myself a realist. I find this article amusing which the author who is clearly not religious complains how the term “Torah Jew” is discriminatory because it excludes the non Orthodox segment. Mind you that the Reform and Conservative movement deviated from original Torah principles. Chassidus also disinherited themselves from tradition but to a different extreme.While I am not a radical traditionalist, I philosophically believe that you cannot expect to be put in the same religious level of the Orthodox when you do things that are clearly in violation of what halachah commands you to do. In all fairness, why would you call yourself a practicing Jew when you don’t strictly observe the Sabbath and Kashrut like you are suppose to?Your temples officiate intermarriage.You want to be part of a Minyan and lain but you see the Niddah laws as a drag. You claim that you are just as knowledgeable and learned but you discard most of the practices that we adhere to such as modesty, Taharat Mishpacha, sexual abstinence etc.Mind you, we are not all perfect. Even the self proclaimed Orthodox Jews don’t always live up to their standards in spite of it.If you don’t like the feeling of being a less of a Jew than everyone else then maybe you should practice and observe your traditions more consistently.
Actually, I am religious. I am not less of a Jew than everyone else. Clearly you don’t know much about me.
it’s not about being less of a jew. every halachic jew is a jew. period. it’s about accepting torah m’sinai, that is the written and the oral law, as binding.
“He uses the Torah as a drunk uses a lamppost: for support and not illumination.”
I will accept as a “Torah Jew” anyone who actually tries to live their life according to the Torah. In my experience, this has included almost no non-Orthodox Jews, and only about 30% of Orthodox ones.
And most people are guilty of only reading the Torah for support.
This post is ridiculous.
Of course only the Orthodox are observing the Torah according to their understanding.
The conservative, reform, re-constructionist, etc., do not believe they are bound by the Torah, and are not observing it to their or anyone’s understanding.
You might say they are living life according to their understanding, which is that the Torah is optional, but how could you call them Torah Jews?
Your post is ridiculous. All of the sects you mentioned do believe they are bound by the Torah and are observing it to their understanding. Here are the facts you missed:
The Reform and Reconstructionists do believe they are following the Torah, just not the same Torah as the Orthodox. The Reform believe that only the Torah that is bein adam l’chaveiro (where l’chaveiro includes non-Jews) are binding, and that everything else is optional. The Reconstructionists believe that following the ethical and ritual aspects of the Torah are necessary to assert oneself as a Jew in today’s world. They believe they are following the Torah, or at least the parts that don’t conflict with their sensibilities.
The Conservatives do believe they are bound by the SAME Torah as the Orthodox and are observing this same Torah to their understanding, but the Orthodox would disagree with their interpretation and adaptation of it.
You write regarding the reform that “only the Torah that is bein adam l’chaveiro (where l’chaveiro includes non-Jews) are binding”. That means they don’t believe the WHOLE torah is binding.
Besides, they don’t believe the bein adom l’chaveiro is binding either. They don’t settle their disputes in din torah.
You write regarding the re-constructionist that they “that following the ethical and ritual aspects of the Torah are necessary”. How is that following the Torah? The torah is the whole Torah.
The Conservative do not feel bound by the torah. The members do not follow the interpretations of the conservative movement; they feel bound by nothing. The movement itself claims to feel bound by the torah, but it is clearly pretense, as anyone who can read hebrew can easily tell. You can’t wear the mantle of Torah Jew merely by claiming so.
Even the Orthodox do not feel bound by the whole Torah. They don’t follow any of the rules of animal sacrifices, for instance, nor are they lobbying to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem so that they may do so. There may be very good reasons for that, but to claim they follow all the laws of the Torah is false. All branches of Judaism choose which laws to follow and which laws to set aside.
wrong. animal sacrifices can only be brought in the temple in jerusalem. no temple. no ability to bring sacrifices. “lobbying” to bring the temple is not a mitzva.
“All branches of Judaism choose which laws to follow and which laws to set aside.”
Whilst some individuals may look for loopholes, the “orthodox” see the torah, mitzvot and halacha as Gd given and binding. Not so other denominations.
“The Conservative do not feel bound by the torah. The members do not follow the interpretations of the conservative movement; they feel bound by nothing. The movement itself claims to feel bound by the torah, but it is clearly pretense, as anyone who can read hebrew can easily tell. You can’t wear the mantle of Torah Jew merely by claiming so.”
The movement is bound by the torah, and changes halacha, as traditional Judaism has done for 2000 years. You can argue with C’s claims about the extent and nature of those changes. That C makes changes you dont agree with, or that you dont agree with the methodology of the CJLS, is fine. But its silly to say that its not Torah Judaism. We dont all agree on how the oral law changes is all.
Give me a break.
Just because they claim to follow halacha, and claim that their interpretations are valid, does not mean I have to respect that claim.
When the claim is clearly false, you are being a fool if you believe it, not being respectful.
You make many strong arguments, but this is not one of them. The laws of animal sacrifices in the Bais Mikdash can only be observed when there is a Bais Mikdash. Because of our spiritual failures, the Bais Mikdash was destroyed, so we are unable to keep the halachos pertaining to it. The Orthodox have not “set aside” these laws – we will resume observing them as soon as the Bais Mikdash is rebuilt, and we try to bring about that rebuilding as soon as possible through our avodas Hashem. There is no “lobbying” to be done – it is not a question of getting the proper permits from the government, but rather of bringing about the era of Moshiach.
If you question the sincerity of the Orthodox in longing for and working towards the day when we can once again keep these halachos, I would direct you to the Temple Institute (http://www.templeinstitute.org/) where many dedicated individuals are actively preparing to resume avodas Bais haMikdash.
The Temple Institute is trying to drive the rebuilding of the Beis Hamikdash, whether or not that comes with Moshiach. Certainly the Korban Pesach can be brought *now* – and there are many Jews who are indeed “lobbying” to make it happen.
1. I think the author misunderstands the phrase “chillul hashem” – she presents some reasons why the term “Torah Jew” is offensive, but that is not what “chillul hashem” means.
2. What the author has a problem with is not the phrase “Torah Jew” but rather Orthodoxy in general. She points out that using the phrase “Torah Jew” to refer only to the Orthodox is exclusive, but as other posters have pointed out, that’s intentional – Orthodox Jews consider the entire Torah binding forever, while other Jews do not – that’s what makes them non-Orthodox. This distinction is manifest not only in the way Orthodox Jews describe themselves in comparison with non-Orthodox Jews; it’s built into halacha and hashkafa. Of course Orthodox Jews see non-Orthodox Jews as less faithful to the Torah – the whole Torah. So let’s call a spade a spade – what you have a problem with is Orthodoxy, because you perceive it to be intolerant of other forms of Jewish religious life. But did you ever consider the hypocrisy of being intolerant of Group X because you perceive them to be intolerant?
You are a wise letter of the alphabet. Your first point is spot on. I’ve been sitting on my thumbs to avoid commenting here, as tempting as it is, just not worth engaging in this theological drivel (but lovin’ being a spectator!). Anyway, thank you Eric/Erica/England/Elephant for being a breath of fresh air.
I am not intolerant of the Orthodox. I am simply stating that the label some of them use is not only inaccurate, it is a chillul hashem because it makes the Jewish community look bad by implying that other religious Jews do not follow the Torah.
Before the reform movement started, there just used to be Jews, the vast majority of whom were Torah observant. The division in Judaism was mainly started by the reform. They changed the rules and then complained that their rules weren’t recognised by the now “orthodox” (formerly just Jews). If a group of people break away from the source religion why does it have to recognise their ways as a valid alternative, if they don’t believe that to be the case.
And btw Judaism is not actually a religion, but a covenant between Hashem and the Jewish people. As members of the covenant through birth or halachic conversion, everyone is equally Jewish. Reform Jews et al are not less Jewish, but they are not Torah Jews if they are picking and choosing. Likewise a consistently dishonest frum Jew is not keeping the Torah either. Everyone may make a mistake here or there, for that we have tshuva, but it is a matter of general outlook. Do you consider yourself to be bound by the word of Hashem?
Various factions in the Orthodox community also have changed “the rules” over time, thus the divisions in observance among various Orthodox groups. Over the course of Jewish history, the rules have always changed over time as our understanding of the world and God’s intention has changed.
I, like many non-Orthodox Jews, do consider myself to be bound by God’s laws. I, like many non-Orthodox Jews, do not agree with some of the interpretations of God’s laws that the Orthodox Jews follow. We are all following the same Torah, based on our understanding of what God wants us to do.
ok phony, how do you understand leviticus 18:22
“Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”
?
I am happy to see you would like to study Torah with me. As I’m sure you must know, the internet is a terrible place to have a deep discussion about the Torah. Torah is best discussed in an atmosphere of mutual respect and with an open heart willing to learn.
You are welcome to come to Torah study at my synagogue to discuss that passage of the Torah, or any other passage, from the weekly Torah portion, with us, as long as you are respectful and do not resort to name calling.
I am not, however, going to discuss with you specific Torah verses here.
youre right theres no torah on the internet.
Youre too much of a phony to admit you dont even have a response.
Lol you crack me up, thank you for that
I am truly sorry that you are in a place that you are unwilling or unable to see that there are intelligent, sincere, committed Torah Jews like myself with views other than your own. May you find shalom along the path you have chosen.
amen, that was beautiful.
i am truly sorry that you are in a place that you are unwilling or unable to answer a simple chalenge posted to you, let alone to realize what a phony you are. May your eyes be opened so you can realize just how full of it you are.
All the best!
Susan
to quote R’ Artson
“It is futile (and degrading) to engage in a polemic with the Orthodox on these points. As a matter of a priori faith, Orthodox rabbis could accept our presentation only by renouncing their Orthodoxy. They will not be persuaded. True, there will be many Orthodox rabbis willing to meet and to talk for the sake of understanding each other, and such open dialogue is to be encouraged and embraced. But the Masorti Jew must to understand that our rejection of Orthodoxy is not based on laziness or ignorance on our part, but rather on the conviction that Orthodoxy reflects a way of understanding Jewish tradition that we find inaccurate and flawed, both in terms of how classical Judaism believed and in terms of how that Jewish tradition developed. What matters, then, is not that we seek Orthodox approval or toleration, but that we understand how classical Jewish thought and dynamics find direct contemporary expression in
Masorti Judaism.”
MasortiDerech –
Thank you for your insightful comment.
I understand it the way R’ Dorff understands it, based on the interpretation of what it is to lie with someone, following Nachmanides. Which is to say, that it means that for two men to have anal sex is an abomination, but ALL OTHER acts between them are forbidden only d’rabbanan, and that halachic fence can be overriden for kvod habriot. For more details of the tshuvot presented to the CJLS, you should look at the RA website. A good place to find “Torah Judaism”
Kavod habrios? To quote nachmanides, that’s fcking retarded.
firstly, what “factions” do you speak of? the “factions” within orthodoxy all observe the same laws, its only the degree of stringencies that differ from group to group. However, the same basic understandings and interpretations of laws are universal. Dont confuse people who are orthodox who fail to observe certain things (which they would admit are proper just that they dont practice that far) with orthodox judaism or “torah judaism”. By and large orthodox judaism has NOT changed the “so called” rules over time. Moreover, whatever changes have been made are only after intense debate among the top torah scholars of the time and accepted only if absolutely necessary so that jews as a whole can continue to live. The greatest argument against other “denominations” claiming the same for their changes to the religion is that if orthodox jews can live in the modern world with minimal if any changes, then all the other changes by the other denominations were unnecessary and incorrect.
secondly, and more importantly, its a very poor comparison when non-orthodox jews defend the legitimacy of their denominational observance against orthodoxy by saying that all denominations, including orthodoxy, have made changes and its all under the umbrella of each to his/her own interpretation of the Torah: as i mentioned above, the process of adjustment for modern times within orthodoxy is done with great care and trepidation so as not to be in violation of any prior Torah laws. Furthermore, look at the types of changes, they are completely different in scope and nature. You cant compare, for example, heter iska (what allows money lending for business purposes with interest) with, for example, changes to the belief of divine origin of the Torah, matrilineal descent, homosexuality, shabbos observance (eg not driving a car on shabbos), niddah, kosher, or any other host of topics that have been challenged by other denominations. Its nice to say that we all interpret things differently, but, as one of the posters above said, orthodoxy hasnt deviated from the original judaism and its core beliefs. Orthodoxy not only does not have to recognize other denominations as legitimate interpretations (i dont mean as a jew – if your mother is jewish, you are jewish, no matter what you believe – i mean beliefs), it should absolutely reject them, because to lend them any legitimacy would be a break from orthodoxy in and of itself.
in the end, thats exactly the whole point of the “Torah Jew” label – those Jews who follow the Torah as it has always been interpreted, from time immemorial. Orthodox Jews are those who have not changed any of the interpretations and live their lives accordingly. If you believe you can reinterpret the Torah, you are not a Torah Jew (and not orthodox either).
P.S. dont throw around the idea that orthodox jews “changed “the rules” over time” – if you can name what was “changed”, and how it was “changed”, you will see very clearly the difference in “making changes” between orthodoxy and everything else: orthodoxy doesnt reinterpret, it searches out halachically permissible solutions that in prior times may not have been the ideal. Orthodoxy works within the rules. Other denominations reinterpret or pick and choose and operate outside the Torah framework (again, hence the term, Torah Jews for orthodox jews)
Ansy I am afraid you will only remain frustrated in this comments section. As already mentioned by MasortiDerech (and validated by Susan), “It is futile (and degrading) to engage in a polemic with the Orthodox on these points”.
Whether or not you are providing compelling, intelligent, thoughtful comments, you will not receive a meaningful response. Susan does not owe any of us responses, nor a theological debate…but by mere fact that she chooses to engage in the comments yet does not acknowledge or engage with any of the intelligent critiques from the Orthodox camp suggests to me that it is time to quietly bow out. Good morning/day/evening to all.
I cannot help myself!! A couple points:
1) Regarding the actual Torah, there has NOT been any changing rules within different Orthodox factions throughout history. The 613 have always remained the same, no matter where you look.
2) Might I suggest that a source of bickering here is the undefined concept of “interepreting” the Torah? If the Torah says “do not mix wool and linen in clothing” then it’s cut and dry, don’t mix wool and linen in your clothing. You can *choose* that this may not be relevant to you, but it is not a matter of how we differ interpreting the halacha.
Yes, you are guided by the exact same Torah that I am guided by, but “based on [your] understanding of what God wants us to do” you are choosing what is relevant and what is irrelevant–you are NOT following a different “interpretation”.
I hope this came across as respectful, not just looking to pick a bone.
I don’t claim that anything in the Torah is irrelevant.
Does the torah tell us we need to get our clothes inspected for wool vs linen? Does it say I cant trust “all wool” on the label?
all that is interpretation, from the tannaim on down.
and that, btw, is one of the more cut and dried ones, so to speak.
I’m not sure what your point is. You don’t seem to disagree with anything I wrote.
so basically what you are saying is that your interpretations, or those of the founders/policy makers of the other denominations, are on the same level as th teachings of tannaim and amoraim. If you believe that, thats fine, but that clearly indicates a disconnect as to the legitimacy of the oral Torah, which is a key tenet of traditional/orthodox “Torah” Judaism. All I’m saying is, if thats the case, it shouldnt be too hard to understand why the term “Torah Jews” are used to by Orthodox Jews to refer to other Orthodox Jews – we follow the Torah, the whole Torah, both written and oral, never changing our beliefs/interpretations/practices for centuries. Don’t ask for legitimacy if you fundamentally deny a core belief: I know masorti brought the quote from the conservative rabbi, and from the non-orthodox POV its correct, but it also doesnt do anything to answer the original complaint of the Torah Jew moniker. Its only a chillul Hashem if you want it to take it as an insult that the Orthodox dont lend legitimacy to the interpretations of the other denominations – something the quoted rabbi expressly says not to do (ie not to take it as an insult), and frankly, something completely legitimate for the orthodox to do, as the concept of the untouchable status of the oral law by subsequent generations who werent and arent near the level of the those sages to possibly argue on their teachings that they set forth.
This is not an issue that’s visible to non-Jews. A chillul Hashem is a child molester in a bekishe and shtreimel on the front page of the NY Times. I can’t tell you what to be offended by, but this is not a chillul Hashem.
I think you misunderstood my other point, which is that you write as though the exclusivity of the phrase “Torah Jew” is accidental. If you are offended by the use of that term to refer only to the Orthodox, then it must be that you are offended by the hashkafa from which that terminology stems – the outlook that only Orthodox Jews are truly faithful to the entire Torah as Moshe received it.
I disagree with the authors. The term Torah Jew was coined by Rabbi Gifter of blessed memory who used it to differentiate between those that simply hide under one label or another and those that truly act and live by the Torah. In sharp contrast to the author’s association of Torah Jews and Orthodox Jews, Rabbi Gifter specifically used it to distance those that “dress” orthodox and those that are well, real Torah Jews. In my opinion, many groups use labels as a way to to legitimize their abandonment of halacha. Those that practice the Torah and let it shape their lives – without compromise – are the ones all Jews should strive to emulate.
“The Conservative do not feel bound by the torah. The members do not follow the interpretations of the conservative movement”
Im old enough to remember when lots of members of O shuls didnt follow the interpretations of the O movement. I am told there are still a few, but most have either moved to the right or have left orthodoxy.
Something similar is happening in C Judaism today – those who only attended C shuls but werent really C Jews are leaving, which is one reason our numbers are declining. But the proportion who take C Judaism seriously, and either practice C judaism, or try to, are increasing.
And the Orthodox members who didn’t keep the torah were not Torah Jews, even if they were Orthodox.
Yet another good reason for the distinction.
Heshy: You still really believe this Bull-S?
I guess I am considered jewish since “satire” seems to be the up coming latest sect
I, having grown up in a Conservative synagogue, remember the first time I was alone in a group of Orthodox Jews. As a teenager, I desperately wanted to understand what divided us. Over time, I tried to reconcile the feeling of “not being good enough to follow Torah” with my deeply rooted belief that modern interpretations of the Torah can be just as valuable as ancient ones. After six years of keeping strictly kosher, strict observance of Shabbat, and following Torah as best as I could possibly learn how, I came to some conclusions.
– There is a fundamental belief in Orthodoxy that the Talmud was literally given as the oral law at Sinai. This is not a view that I share, nor is it a view that I believe is necessary for strict adherence to Torah principles and practices.
– The virtue of a statement, interpretation, etc. is inherent, not a matter of who said it. The Talmud is a holy text by virtue of the wisdom and care used to create it, to the extent that such qualities are contained in the text itself. Similarly, modern scholars, including Orthodox scholars, may produce holy works through working collectively with wisdom and care. These works, however, must stand the test of time. Because we cannot know which interpretations will stand and which will not, we must make choices. Failure to do so would be to either ignore all modern scholarship or to blindly embrace all prominent thought founded on illegitimate criteria.
– There is a disagreement, primarily between the Conservative Movement and the Orthodox Movement, about the role and scope of modern interpretations of the Torah. This stems primarily from the views about the role and scope of the Talmud. If the Talmud is seen as the same as Torah, then anything but strict adherence to Talmudic law would preclude someone from the status of being a “Torah Jew.” This appears to be the predominant view of the Orthodox Movement. The Conservative Movement considers the Talmud a foundational text created by great sages. In this view, Torah (or possibly TaNaKh) is paramount, after which the Talmud holds great weight. The difference is that the Conservative Movement believes the conversation that these great sages had through our sacred texts has not ended. It continues to this day. The question of the scope of any statements made by the Rabbis of the movement is one of active debate. The intention, however, is to limit the scope of any changes to advocate fidelity to Torah.
– The “big ticket items” of egalitarianism, gay marriage, driving/electricity on Shabbat, etc. are distractions for the sake of this discussion. One may agree with the notion of a modern Sanheidrin while disagreeing with any or all of these things, and vice versa. Personally, I am torn about driving/electricity on Shabbat. When I hit my head on Simchat Torah one year, and blood was gushing out, I wanted to walk to the hospital. Now, I drive the 5 miles to the nearest synagogue on Shabbat.
– The notion that the distribution of observance in the Jewish community has changed in the past 2000 years is distorted. Yes, it has. No, it has not changed as much as many would like to believe. There has always been a significant percentage of Jews who have found alternative practices within their communities. The Reform Movement broke away officially, and on a large scale, followed by the Conservative Movement. Neither of these happened overnight. They were hundreds of years in the making, and their formations resulted from vast numbers of Jews realizing that they were not alone. The timing was due to improved communication methods as well as opening societies. It is not until the formation of these movements that the scope of modern scholars’ works became as limited in the Orthodox Movement as it is today.
– The notion of labels is an enormous subject, but if I may, I would like to address the idea that a “Torah Jew” is exclusively Orthodox. In the vast majority of cases, I would concede that an Orthodox perspective would require such exclusivity. I would suggest, however, that a more appropriate term would be “Talmud Jew.” While I still feel a pang of inferiority in suggesting this, it is more palpable. The Torah belongs to all Jews. Each movement or strand should be allowed to define what it’s ideal, or “Torah Jew,” is. The Talmud, while a sacred text for all Jews, is taken most literally by the Orthodox, and the Orthodox would agree that, by implication, a “Talmud Jew” is a “Torah Jew.” Moreover, the term “Torah Jew” in its current usage by the Orthodox is really more about strict adherence to the principles set forth in the Talmud used to elaborate on the Torah. Certainly an Orthodox person might argue that the real adherence is to the Torah, with the Talmud merely defining the correct manner of such adherence. I counter that this is semantics, and, in the name of respect for fellow Jews, it would be prudent to switch to the term “Talmud Jew.”
I write this from a state of longing. I want there to be one Judaism. While I do not necessarily see myself as a “Torah Jew” at this moment, I strive to find a state of living where I can see myself holding such a title. The context in which I arrive at such a state will probably be shaped largely, but not exclusively, by the Conservative Movement. I ask, implore the Orthodox community to consider accepting a broad view of what it means to be a “Torah Jew,” “Good Jew,” “Religious Jew,” “Jewish Scholar,” or, at times, just a “Jew.” This is not a request to loosen a value system or to go against halachah. I ask merely that piety not be monopolized. We are too small and vulnerable to be divided as such. We must share and be open to each other’s interpretations, even if we disagree. Now, more than ever, we must unite as one Jewish people. We must recognize each other’s practices as being validly “Jewish,” even if they are not our own. I understand that this is difficult, and it can seem impossible to reconcile, but this is the great mission of our generation. We owe it to ourselves, to our children, and to our Judaism to accept this task without qualification or dissent. That is what will bring about Moshiach. That is what will make this world a better place.
” We may not all agree regarding how we interpret God’s intent, but we are all Torah Jews.”
If you are so “tolerant” perhaps you’ll be ok with 2 pro-gaza-flotilla homosexuals consecrating their “marriage” in front of the children’s minyan while serving ham and cheese sandwiches?
How can you condemn them? After all, according to you, they can simply say, this is how we “interpret G-d’s intent”?
In other words, sometimes you can be so openminded your brains fall out.
PS – you know what I find even more revolting about “Conservative” and “Reform” etc and even many “Modern Orthodox” (of which I guess I fall in):
that most of them are just simple and stupid liberals who, even with M.O keeping a stricter observance to kashrut and Shabbos) inevitably while clamoring about their love and support of Israel (and America), are almost all pulling the D lever every election, which INSURES more left wing garbage that hastens the destruction of Israel and America.
I think you should just change the movement names based on how you vote:
If you “earn like Presbyterians and vote like Puerto Ricans” then simply call yourself jinos.
Wow! I had no idea!
You guys are all as confused and sectarian as the Christians are! Each group and sub-group and sub-sub-group engaged in interminable hair-splitting over how one appears (or should be if they really practiced what they preached) holier than the other!