Why is it that the only frum girls that any frum guys ever talk about being attractive are chabad girls? Have you ever wondered about this phenomena? Have you ever wondered why there’s no shidduch crisis in the Lubavitcher world? Could it be that the attractiveness of the girls has a direct correlation on the lack of single girls in their community? Don’t get all crazy on me just yet, I’m only admitting these very scary premonitions after reading a very serious Jewish Press article on the subject of ugly girls causing their own shidduch crisis in the yeshivish community.
The author of the piece talks about a new amazing initiative where the mothers of boys meet potential matches for their sons. This is because the yeshivish community puts tznius before anything and how tznius would it be for boys to actually meet the potential mates prior to the mother in law screening process. The author of the article speaks about her son being a “great” boy, hard to believe because he’s still single and this woman is actually attending an event obviously geared towards the mothers of less than great boys. Still, she attends and finds a dismal level of hotness among the girls. She wanted to shake them and tell them to put on makeup, push up bras and to comb their hair.
Of course, the commenters are going crazy, but she does have a point that is seldom talked about in the frum world. Frum girls are just plain old ugly, there’s no escaping it, why do you think so many more guys than girls go off the derech? Why do you think hot chanies are never that hot? Why do you think anyone in their sane state of mind would shell out a months salary for a hair piece that is supposed to make them look 20 years younger?
Now I have no idea what to do about the lack of hotness in the frum world…is there really anything we can do? Chabad girls are known as untznius, but many have ascertained that it’s just jealousy over the fact that there aren’t many single chabad girls over the age of 22 (that’s considered old my most standards besides modern orthodox where the old age level is raised to 27)
I’m not sure that I would take it to the extreme by agreeing with the author who suggested cosmetic surgery, but her point is clear – get hot, or stay single…because all the girls over 22 are ugly.
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how old is your wife?
The answer to that question is highly ironic!
Ah, but if you convert after 22–are you immediately ugly, or is there a grace period?
Or 30 for that matter. 😉
Not really, he is saying the author of the article referenced says girls over 22 are ugly. The writer of that article must think she is ugly, though (she has a son old enough to marry).
Well, if the shidduch types stop mating, then only the less frum , more sane folks will reproduce..
Oh yeah — because Jewish guys are SO attractive.
Heh heh. I’ve got aidel maidels, hadarlings, hot chani’s, and chesty esti’s banging down my door asking to date me.
So however unattractive or attractive I am, I am getting the dates.
PRECISELY. There are more guys than girls population wise (across the board, not just in Jewish or even observant circles). Thus, there are more single women. Basic economic law of supply and demand. If anything, there are more attractive-single females who don’t find the Dans of the world to be charming, amusing, or appealing, in any way.
The reason for the shidduch crisis is simple. Parents are failing at raising quality, strong, ambitious males. And the bad economy isn’t helping.
PS This isn’t exclusively an observant Jewish problem. http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/11/all-the-single-ladies/8654/
That’s a very interesting article you linked to. It looks like you don’t understand it though…
I don’t to be thought charming, attractive, or amusing. As long as I’m getting some.
Believe it or not, frum girls allow themselves to be treated as leftovers on a fleamarket table. Don’t let these greasy, smelly, ill mannered bochers have control over you. Do they even own mirrors? I am related to people who think that their sons are mashiach. They were worried when their daughters hit 21.
Let the mothers be overly picky for their little boys because in no time they will be bald odd older men who live at home with their parents. Yeah, just the shiduch I want for my kids.Girls you get plastic surgery when there are no unibrows in the frum male world. Until then, respect yourself!
One more thing, why don’t these boys/men lack in social graces?
That’s a very interesting article you linked to. It looks like you don’t understand it though…
If there are more guys in the population, there should be more single guys, not the other way round.
there are more girls in the population, actually
“Oh yeah — because Jewish guys are SO attractive.”
OK, you missed the entire point of Halberstam’s article, as well as the frumsatire follow-up.
There are plenty of fugly chabad chicks out there trust me. The real answer to why there’s a “shidduch crisis” comes down to one thing – compromise. Every guy or girl since the beginning of history only married someone because they were willing to overlook the many flaws the potential spouse had because they liked some of the other character traits (looks,money,caring,creative, virile,kind,etc).
EXACTLY!!!
Agreed.
Historically, they married someone because they needed someone to make the babies with and they bought the best girl they could afford, she didn’t get so much say in the matter.
That and polygamy helped your chances since there’s always been more girls than guys (except in China since that’s their policy).
I have no idea, Heshy, why you are obsessed with the fact that Chabad girls are hot? Besides for the fact that you are engaged to one!
I see many non-Chabad, some even yeshivish type, (not VERY, but what you would call yeshivish) that are hot, stylish and beautiful.
I actually didn’t find the hot Chanie photo u showed a while back of the woman wearing the sheer black tights and ugly skirt hot at all!
In every society there are people who are ugly or don’t play up to their potential and those who do.
Heshy listed Hot Chani’s as a reason to make him cringe just last week. He doesn’t find them attractive, just attention-getting. Or at least that’s the line I’ve been fed!
I have repeated the fact that Hot Chanie’s are not necessarily hot, I myself rarely find them hot and it is a term devoted to style not looks. It’s not just me, it’s non-Jews and Jews alike who are dumbfounded with the hot chabad girl phenomena – we just don’t understand the disproportion in that community.
Let’s not forget the awesome Chmilfs too.
It’s because they are full of life.
They are what I call “done up girls” who expend a lot of timeeeeeeeeeeeee and EEEEEEEEEEnergy on their appearances. Most done up girls (both Chabad and secular) are ugly with nice bodies. They know they have to really invest in their appearance because otherwise they got nothing. Girls like me who are naturally beautiful don’t want to be phony done up, ruin our skin with fake up. We don’t have to be because we look better than a done up girl with no fake up on.
“Girls like me who are naturally beautiful” – so you’re fugly AND delusional.
I dunno, Hesh, I’ve seen plenty of girls over 30 [gasp!] that are still single in Lubavitch. I think the reason is more along the lines of converts or ba’al teshuvah’s not entering the orthodox dating scene until much later than the other girls.
It’s the same reason as the men, and it doesn’t have to do with looks. The issue is the amount of choices that are open to them and their inability to decide. Also, from what I’ve been told, the reason the men go off the derech more than women is because 1) women are innately more religious than men, or so history tells us; and 2) men see the women as ridiculously demanding. I can’t comment on that point, I just don’t know what to compare it to. Frankly I find many shiksas to be shockingly materialistic personally.
Excellent satire! You captured the message perfectly. The Jewish Press has exceeded their standard of garbage and sunk to a new low.
I heard they are merging with the Beacon.
I read this blog about once a month. I used to think it wasn’t funny. now I realize it’s unfunny and mean. guess what Heshy – you are ugly. inside and out.
hahah
Dear Anonymous
Let me remind you this is a satire blog. Heshy saw an article in the JewishPress that suggests to mothers of their single frum girls to consider getting nose jobs and other enhancements in order to improve their chances of getting a prize shidduch. As ugly as the JewishPress is, it is simply a reflection of frum culture. And that culture has just gotten uglier. Heshy projects this in his satire. He pokes fun by magnification.
It is not meant to be funny, but provocative. Don’t read this blog if you don’t get it.
“I read this blog about once a month. I used to think it wasn’t funny. now I realize it’s unfunny and mean. guess what Heshy – you are ugly. inside and out.”
Dear Anonymous,
Why the hell are you reading this blog?
Signed,
Alter Cocker
The writer to the Jewish Press might have been a shill for plastic surgeons. You know how Jewish mothers are driven by fear of social non-acceptance to be conformist. Just get a few of them started and the others will follow.
This is a basic issue that applies in all social contexts. It’s not just about frum shidduchim. I spent 20 years looking for Mr. Right, and didn’t get married until I was 37. My husband was 33, and when he decided he wanted to settle down and find a soulmate, he started looking and found me within a year. That’s right. 20 years of looking vs. one year. It’s just the biological difference between men and women. Because men can have children until they die, they are not under the same degree of pressure to marry and can take their time. Because women are under so much more pressure to marry, it is harder for them, because the men are taking their time.
Also, I read the linked article, and while I do agree that a little makeup never hurt, I also think the author is an idiot. Plastic surgery? That’s obscene in every sense of the word.
Really? I’m sure I can think of a usage for “obscene” which would not include plastic surgery.
Men think they have forever but they can’t marry what they can’t attract and I hope women are smart enough to get ANGRY about these guys who wait until they are 50 and go around demanding a 30 year old “cuz he wants kids.”
I used to think I wanted kids but now I’m listening to these matchmakers who get in my face, “what are you looking for?” and then turn around and tell me I’m worthless. Good. My contribution to solving the shidduch crisis is taking myself off the market and being content single. Married life does NOT look appealing to me at allllllllll. I mean, being woken up by an infant several times a night while the husband sleeps, going to work the next day because I gotta work full time, then I have to do alll the household chores (cook, clean, take care of kids baths and homework) and cant sleep again cuz baby’s crying…. not appealing.
Obscene is a harsh view. I think it was in church, where Anne of Green Gables used her imagination to improve the looks of her fellow congregants, and confided to Diana that except for a mole (plastic surgery nowadays), the other changes could have been implemented immediately. There is nothing wrong with trying to look your best, particularly your unaugmented best.
Sure. Then let’s start a movement called “Operation: Make Jewish Guys Less Repulsive Looking.”
Remember, it has nothing to do with how we look. Chicks really dig the food encrusted beards, yellow stained shirts, worn shoes, and never-washed kippas. The want us for our uncanny ability to make money. And by that I mean having them work while we learn all day.
Life is good when you are a man.
Former Editor, you once again missed the point of the articles in question. No one said Jewish guys are particularly good looking.
Chabad girls are easy.
I BEG YOUR PARDON.
“Chabad girls are easy”
Did you find it to be so pre,concurrent with or post the meshichist phase of your life?
“Chabad girls are easy.”
Assuming this libel to be true, how would you know, unless you were of a promiscuous nature yourself?
There is a woman in my shul with 4 (Bais Yaakov) daughters. When they turn 16, they get a nose job – needed or not. The problem is not the girls’ insecurities – it’s the mother’s.
And, what do you know, one of the girls actually came out with a nose uglier than the one she started with. She used to be a pretty girl!
When someone called me as a reference for a young woman who is a neighbor, they wanted to know her MOTHER’S dress size!
What can I say? All my girls got married without too much fuss, and yes, one of them could have used a nose job – but guess what? Her husband (who is very attractive) loves her just the way she is.
There are men out there who aren’t superficial! But their mothers? I dunno….
What does superficiality have to do with Man’s natural need to be sexually attracted to his wife?
Because sexual attraction can grow; you can end up very attracted to someone who you weren’t attracted to at all when you first met them.
I think a Yeshiva boy who hasn’t had a handshake with a girl will have much bigger sexual problems than whether or not he can get it up…
I put it all on inbreeding. Especially within the frum community! Everyone is somehow related but when you are marrying within your own culture, then within your own community the gene pool gets smaller and smaller. Though there are rare examples, usually sfardis marry sfardis and ashkis marry ashkis etc etc. Its just a continuous breed of ugly people (on the outside only of course). Why do you think frum people are so short?! I’m 5″7 and am considered Amazonian in height for frum female standards.
It is extremely rare to see a guy or girl who are strikingly good looking in the frum community (I’m talking model good looks)…unless its just their devotion to tznius that have them cover it up with a lack of makeup or care towards emphasizing their natural looks.
I actuallt tend to agree. I think this shows why converts are so good for the gene pool
I’ve seen frum guys/girls who have model good looks. They’re mostly in Israel though where the genes have been better mixed and less stagnant. In America, if they’re good looking they’re almost certainly BT.
Yup, mixing it up brings out all kinds of beautiful Israeli men.
Keeping it Eastern European brings out pasty, drab, unattractive men.
I find this incredibly true. The inbreeding with cousins. I think Jews of Slavic linage (Russian/Ukrainian) have a higher chance of being attractive as well as those who have parents that are converts, and converts in general are attractive.
I’m not sure why Chabbad girls are hotter, but I find BTs just as hot as well. Mostly because someone in their linage definitely wasn’t Jewish.
Jews need diversity in the gene pool. This is why most of us have big noses. I don’t think everyone needs surgery, if one gets it more power to them but it is what it is.
Inbreeding ? Seriously? What were you smoking before you made that comment? Thankfully there are millions of Jewish People on this earth and we have plenty of people to marry and raise families with The worst cardinal sin a Jew can commit is intermarriage. So of course we have a limited gene pool. Its anyone who ‘s mother and grandmother and so on was Jewish. However, the customs of different sects of Jewry usually meant Ashkenazim marry their kind and Sephardi marry theirs. Today, many frum marriages are mixed . Getting back to the main point and that is Heshy is Right and the lady that wrote the article is mainly right as well. There is NO REASON in the world that both Bocherim & Bais Yaakov Girls should always look their best during shiduchim and of course after the wedding. The reason Jewish Men have affairs is NOT because they dont love their wife. It’s because he comes home to a “shlochetta in the kitchen with a mop or a rag on her head ” who doesn’t get dressed all week.
Typo: “should always ” was in error. The correct version is
SHOULDN’T ( as in there is NO reason a frum bocher or maidel shouldn’t always look great )
“There is NO REASON in the world that both Bocherim & Bais Yaakov Girls should always look their best during shiduchim and of course after the wedding. ”
After the wedding: Um how about, because it is ridiculous to expect women to constantly while raising 6+ children to have time to have perfect makeup and clothing all the time. Maybe instead of using the little time they have, they can relax and their husband can appreciate the fact that there are more important things in family life than being a Stepford wife.
Your attitude and similar attitudes about frum women and is greatly contributing to the shidduch crisis. It is the reason that beautiful and intelligent women are marrying men who shouldn’t even be sitting at the same table as them much less in their beds. It is giving men the excuse to cheat and breaking up families. It is causing eating disorders and botched surgeries.
How about we blame the poor middos of men and their overbearing mothers/family, instead of blaming girls for their every slight physical imperfection.
http://iwastesomuchtime.com/on/?i=28804
In my situation, as an available lady….. I find the opposite, the available men are wretched mama’s boys with no educations and no jobs, why would I want that??? not hot enough? blah, the men are as homely,dull and dreary as they get!
You disgust me.
People who don’t understand satire disgust me. Not you, you impress me with your persuasive speech.
The lake of eligible males in the general population, particlarly in NYC and SF are due to the Homos. Read an extensive article in the Sunday NY Times a few years back about it.
As in everything in life, comes down to supply and demand.
Also, men are created to be attracted to the better looking ones so they procreate better and stronger offspring.
Sorry, nature can be cruel..
Ooh, time to get out the popcorn. This is going to get fun!
Like!
Wait, we all know that the homos cause global warning (since they are so Hot Hot Hot). We know that the homos know how to make a wave (in the pacific ocean) — and a rave. We know that all the world’s ills are due to the homos. But it’s there fault that frum girls are ugly? Now I’m not sure I believe that — unless a godol said it. And if so, then it must be true.
Pass the popcorn.
Oh, Nature, you silly little minx! Supply and demand, need to modify yourself, etc, etc… good times..
Got any low butter popcorn?
Wait, there’s a lake of eligible males? Woo woo, and the water’s warm!
When it rains men, they have to end up somewhere.
LOL I gave it to Halberstam yesterday using my real name and everything. Shame on her. I am sure Hesh is being sarcastic he is a sweety.
Eh.
The only shidduch crisis was in the biblical story of yetzeus metrayim. There lots of the jewish males were drowned by pharaoh when he was trying to get moshe. But if you really think we have a problem now and want to find a ‘magical solution’ try what they did back then – polygamy! (on a serious note I think the panic in girls more than boys is that a girls ‘frum’ window closes at 23/24 while guys can still be ‘in the range’ and 28. By giving girls so much less time they will obviously feel more pressure)
Unlike some of the commenters here, I love Jewish guys – the frummier the better. Big, haredi beards and velvet kippot peeking out of the back of black hats (the frum equivalent of the ‘whale tail’) are big turn ons. [And I’m not being sarcastic – promise.]
– Yisroel
I totally agree with you, Yisroel! I just don’t like black hats. Have you ever smelled one of them?
Yes, but with gay frum guys the black hats smell like salon ‘product’ or cologne. [FYI, my black hat kinda smells like ‘Curve’ by Claiborne.]
– Yisroel
Perhaps BY schools need to give seniors a course on hotness. They spend all those years teaching them how to be dowdy and clearly some girls don’t figure out what it takes to get a guy’s (or his mother’s) attention. How many BY girls really know how to heat an ice cream cone or ice pop on a date in manner that will have a yeshiva bochur waking up to change his pajamas that night? Or how to strategically wear a seat-belt in manner that could result in some very distracted driving? Or to roll up her sleeves to just below the elbows to encourage a bocher’s most lewd fantasies?
“The author of the article speaks about her son being a “great” boy, hard to believe because he’s still single and this woman is actually attending an event obviously geared towards the mothers of less than great boys.”
She did have an excuse. She said the event was organized by a friend of hers and while it wasn’t relevant for her son, she agreed to come to help attendance or something.
What about chest implants? Why limit surgery to nose jobs?
Also, what if a girl gets a full makeover and is STILL single?
I would never date a girl whose brests weren’t natural. Fake nose is one thing, but once we’re going with brest implants, I may as well marry some freak who had a sx change.
chesty Esti…… it’s what the boys want. The problem is that she’s too fat. She needs to weight about 100 pounds and she doesn’t
Michal, did you stop blogging?
“Chesty Esti”??? LLOOOOOOOL Michalshtik , you’ve done it again!
100 pounds? Eww, only if she’s 5’0″. At most.
Give me these girls for a cycle through Boot Camp, I will make matches for 95% of them.
The hareidi men are a completely different story. MAYBE 3% of these jukim can be cleaned up enough, to find a buyer in the open free market!
wow, Heshy: your webserver doesn’t reproduce hebrew letters in my name. All the goyish sites do. Oh My God, you Frummies ARE clowns! Amend the Law of Return….. better we should get Druzim and Filipinot than you washouts!
Ok, so I just have to comment. I was a BT from ages 23-29. The entire time, I dated the biggest weirdos-people with Aspergers, alcoholic brother in laws, etc. I finally got married at 29, and divorced 6 months later. The guy, low and behold, lied on his shidduch interviews.
I am 33 now, and have left BT-land happily. Since that time, I have not had any trouble finding a boyfriend. I am average looking, maybe above average. Cute, but not hot. But, I have dated smart, educated, normal, happy guys, and have had no trouble finding them in the non-religious world.
The frum world is really messed up.
What’s wrong with people with alcohol brothers-in-law? You’re (considering) marrying the guy you’re on a date with, not his brother-in-law. And people with Asperger’s can function quite fine, depending on the severity.
What’s wrong with people with alcoholic brothers-in-law? You’re (considering) marrying the guy you’re on a date with, not his brother-in-law. And people with Asperger’s can function quite fine, depending on the severity.
I’m part of the so called shidduch crisis, and it’s probably my own fault. I’m picky. I’d rather be single than marry to some ugly guy. I’m only going to be with one guy, and I’d like him to look as attractive as I am. I constantly meet non-frum or non-jewish guys who are highly attractive… for some reason, though, the frum guys I go out with are all unattractive. If I don’t find a cute guy soon I’ll just marry a non-Jew. I’m serious.
Ooh! A threat! “if you guys don’t get hotter, I’m a find me someone else!”
How’s that working out for you?
It’s (obviously) not a threat, just a fact.
Sarah,
If the problem is that the guys aren’t as attractive as you, I have to conclude one of three things:
(1) You are really unusually attractive, in which case you should just come down a couple of notches in your standards. No one should require a “perfect 10” in order to get married, and being a perfect 10 yourself should not render all the “8”s in the room suddenly ugly in your eyes. The libido doesn’t work this way. There’s simply no rule that a gorgeous woman cannot be attracted to a handsome, but not equally gorgeous, man.
(2) You’re dating a population of guys who have characteristics you simply don’t find attractive (e.g. you hate beards but are only set up with Lubavitchers).
(3) You’re simply too picky. This last problem is rather hard to fix, but there are plenty of people with this problem (even though they hate being told this). If this is your problem, I would only recommend you “settling” if you have the maturity to not make your future spouse pay for not living up to unreasonable standards of perfection. Otherwise, you kind of have no choice but to keep looking. Depending on how unreasonable you are, you’ll keep searching till the day you die (all the while getting progressively less physically attractive to men). It’s better to be single than to make a future spouse unhappy with unreasonable standards of beauty.
Not all guys are this shallow. Most of the married men in my community are not married to gorgeous women. They seem to be doing fine.
Guest – I think you bring up some good points, don’t have the time to address them all now but I’ll say this – if I really was SO picky, I probably would not be meeting guys on a regular basis who I find attractive (at work and school etc). The problem is that in the frum dating world there seem to be so few guys… and within that tiny pool, few are attractive. I think that the guys know that there are less of them, so they don’t even attempt to look good. They seem to think all girls are desperate, or maybe they’ve been brainwashed to believe that girls don’t care about appearances -we do! But these guys let themselves go cause they think they can get whoever they want. I’m willing to settle somewhat -everyone should be – but I still want to find the man I spend my life with physically attractive.
I don’t see obvious solutions, but I can offer some suggestions and observations:
“if I really was SO picky, I probably would not be meeting guys on a regular basis who I find attractive (at work and school etc).”
As mechanical as it sounds, it might be useful to enumerate (at least for yourself) what things you find attractive about those guys in general. I’d be interested in knowing what they have that you are not seeing in the frum guys you are being set up with. I’ve seen plenty of guys who are neither overweight, nor are they 90 pounds weaklings. I’ll wager, of course, that there are fewer captain-of-the-varsity team type jocks in the frum world (the yeshivah day is long, and schools are underfunded), but I don’t think this is enough to render a congenitally handsome man ugly.
I don’t know if the speed dating thing is still going on. I never did it, but one potential advantage is that you can meet a whole bunch of people in rapid succession. Guys who you thought were cute off the bat you can convey an interest to the organizers of the event afterwards.
I used websites like frumster briefly. I know photos can lie, but my subjective opinion was that guys were not so averse to throwing their photos up. Most guys would love to have an attractive woman make introductions. Unlike many pretty women, handsome men are less likely to be actively hit on on a regular basis (women batting their eyelashes doesn’t count). I can hardly imagine a good looking man getting jaded the same way a good looking woman does for being “treated like a piece of meat,” so if there’s a guy on a website you want to make an introduction to, I say go for it. You might be rebuffed, but the odd’s are much more in your favor than for most guys who find themselves in a comparable situation.
“The problem is that in the frum dating world there seem to be so few guys… and within that tiny pool, few are attractive.”
Not being a girl it’s hard for me to estimate the “lay of the land” for a typical frum female. I’m not so convinced that frum guys are aware of being a rare commodity. There seems to be a perception that frum single men are like CEOs running an industry in which they possess a monopoly on goods and services. I don’t think that’s how they view themselves at all, and there are plenty of guys who might fret about not meeting the right girl for one reason or another. I think the offensive behavior that you describe relates more to the fact that some men are arrogant, entitled jerks. I think they would be like that even if there was more parity in the guy:girl ratio.
Lastly, of course, character matters first and foremost, for both you and the guy. There are plenty of attractive people that make lousy life partners, so in spite of everything said above, it’s important that you seek out a good person first and foremost. You should of course be such a person yourself.
Its not a threat to me, but to the angle Jewish male population. Or a cry for attention…
I’m venting on an anonymous message board. I am not threatening you, your friends, or your family.
Or even the “angle Jewish male population” (whatever that is).
Yay, you noticed I used a phone that does odd things when faced with a spelling error! But yeah, when a little kid says ” If I don’t get exactly what I want, I’m gonna run off, I mean it!”, it’s a whine for attention, or a hollow threat. If you come out to the interner, and say “No Jewish men are up to my standards, if my Prince Charming doesn’t appear, I’m gonna leave, and I mean it!”, either you are making a hollow threat, or crying for attention. Based on your other answers out there, I am going to say it’s the latter. It is stupidity when an older fat slob says he “must” have a healthy, vibrant girl at the youngest culturally acceptable age for marriage, but it’s not much better to proverbially stomp your foot and stick your lower lip out until your mister perfect rides up on a horse to get on a knee for you. Both attitudes lead to sad and lonely people.
Sorry SJ, you’re not going to convince me that I was attempting to attention seek or threaten. My post here reads much like many of my diary entries. Please be assured that I am neither seeking attention from my diary or trying to threaten it.I’m frustrated and I’m venting. It’ s really that simple.
Is your diary posted on a website with a large readership?
I’d noticed that no one had commented on this article since the end of March, and frankly I didn’t really think anyone would respond to me. Incidentally, the fact that you’re unable to comprehend the possibility of someone venting about their situation for reasons other than to pose a threat or to seek attention says a lot about you.
Oh, I know people can vent, but you vent like a whiny, attention seeking 8 year old.
Sorry SJ, you’re not going to convince me that I was attempting to attention seek or threaten. My post here reads much like many of my diary entries. Please be assured that I am neither seeking attention from my diary or trying to threaten it.I’m frustrated and I’m venting. It’ s really that simple.
Is your diary posted on a website with a large readership?
I’d noticed that no one had commented on this article since the end of March, and frankly I didn’t really think anyone would respond to me. Incidentally, the fact that you’re unable to comprehend the possibility of someone venting about their situation for reasons other than to pose a threat or to seek attention says a lot about you.
Oh, I know people can vent, but you vent like a whiny, attention seeking 8 year old.
Attractive guy or non-jew… Sounds like you need to get your priorities in check.
If the best you can do is resort to name calling Sergeant J, it’s obviously a waste of time to discuss anything with you. Good luck to you.
I did not call you a name, I made an observation of your writing style. Since it seems you can’t comprehend English all that well, I will leave off with wishing you the best of luck in finding someone who meets your “standards”.
And I will leave you with the suggestion that you replace your picture of that stoned African-American with something a little more presentable.
It’s me in the picture, and I don’t do drugs. I do have occasion to be in dark places where the only light is a computer, and have long work days, esp mission days in the desert. Your assumption that the picture is a “stoned african american” has given me a reason to actually identify you as something you may take as an insult, but likely will not. I take back my hope that your social life gets better. Don’t breed, the earth does not need any more racists.
I’m not racist, but you sure seem hateful.
Has anyone noticed that Sarah O said there are attractive non-frum males? That means that she is apparently not striving for some unattainable standard. If she said there were no attractive men whatsoever, then that would indeed imply an unreasonable standard. But if she says only the frum males are unattractive, then that means that apparently, frum men really are less attractive, and that her standards are quite reasonable. Perhaps frum men really are overweight more often? Or perhaps they historically intermarried too often with cousins?
Anyway, me, my problem is that all the nerdy frum girls seem to be in hutz la-aretz. They seem to be an extinct species here in Israel.
Is this so much to ask? 😛
Hmm, there was supposed to be an embedded YouTube video there, after “Is this so much to ask? :P”. Apparently, the embed didn’t work. The video was this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsd49ygP1bw.
Doesn’t that belong in an EJ post?
I’m sure I’ve posted here there before.
*her
1. Go to the Filipino churches in T-A , Jerusalem, Haifa, BeerSheva.
2. Select one from amongst the dozens of drop-dead-gorgeous sabra chix.
3. When she’s in tironut, have the Army conversion done. Presto chango.
4. Enjoy your incredibly attractive Eurasian children.
Sounds like she has a non-Jew fetish.
Yes, it’s certainly your own fault [that you are part of the so called shidduch crisis]. You are too picky. But, since you are so superficial, why do you “go out” with men you find unattractive? Your statement, “If I don’t find a cute guy soon I’ll just marry a non-Jew” makes you far more unattractive than any physical attribute. Perhaps that’s why you can’t attract an attractive mate.
One more thing.
I’m in really good shape. I work out nearly every day for about an hour and only eat fatty foods on weekends and holidays. A frum guy friend of mine always tells me that he wants a girl who looks like me and has my body type. The only problem is, HE is chubby! He does not work out and eats like a pig. I’m too nice to point that out to him, but WTF?! Can you say hypocrite??
WHERE does this entitlement attitude come from, guys?! If you’re fat and don’t take care of your body, you have NO right to expect girls who are in shape and do take care of themselves to want you! We want someone who looks good just as much as you do!! GET A GRIP!
That IS a stupid double standard…
your body may be in good shape, but what about the rest of you? your attitude is overly harsh, self-congratulatory and superficial. i sense a lonely, bitter, uptight, self-absorbed single woman coming up. that type is already a cliche.
it doesn’t have to be that way. i wasn’t attracted to my husband initially, but as i got to know him, the attraction grew. give yourself and the guys a chance.
She is right if she wants someone in a good shape. Let’s face it – men who don’t work out have less energy, less testosterone, less stamina etc. There is no way that someone who likes to be active will be happy with some potato coach. It may sound superficial but in the reality it’s a very profound issue of one’s attitude toward life. Smoking, obesity, sedentary lifestyle all are results of neglecting yourself. How woman can expect a man to take proper care of herself if he neglects himself?
Well said; thanks Shoshana.
Always nice to be judged, thanks anonymous!
Oh, and you have not judged every frum Jewish male by stating that none live up to your standard?
No, I’ve said that all the guys I’ve dated are unattractive. If you want to marry someone you find unattractive rather than judge them then that is your prerogative sir.
If the guys you date are not attractive…. and as you seem to imply, only the “unreachable” non-Jewish guys are…. maybe you are just into things out of reach.. Or perhaps you need to choose who you date more effectively? If there are NO guys you want to date for non “attraction” reasons that are also attractive, none at all, then it may be you, not them…
Frum women (and men) shouldn’t use expressions like “WTF”. Perhaps you can’t attract an attractive frum gentleman because you don’t behave and speak in a frum manner?
WTF = Wow, that’s Frum!
My upper beismedresh relative has sabotaged so many shidduchim by insisting on viewing recent photos before meeting. I suggested he subcsribe to BY yearbooks so he could shuckle over them instead of Shas
Although it is foolish to base a relationship on fleeting beauty, it is just as foolish to pursue a relationship with someone you find repulsive. A recent (and accurate) photo before meeting prevents an awkward and an unpleasant “date” in the latter case, and does no harm in any other case.
Lets face it. There is more incentive to be overweight than slender in today’s frum society. Girls in seminary lockdown, cholent shiurim, Pesach Hotels, cholent with kishka, Aguda conventions complete with carving table, etc. Overweight is being encouraged and reinforced in every level of frum society except maybe LWMO
I’m sure I’ve posted her there before.
I heard a joke in Israel once. “Women are like public toilets, the good ones are taken and the ones that remain stink!” I think this is what’s going on. After a certain age the men and women left stink. Sure you may say that the girls are ugly, but so are the guys. So the guys go to single events and they find all the girls ugly, but the girls find the guys to be ugly too….hence the shidduch crisis.
My own take in the shidduch crisis is that Jewish education for women is a lot more liberal than for men. Men are looking for a woman who will be mother of their children and hold down the fort. Women are looking for romance and a guy with locks like Fabio. Jewish women’s expectations are too goyish. They have seen too much “Sex in the City” and building an elevated Jewish home is the last thing on their minds. I belong to the Dati Leumi/Sephardic community and our women judge a guy first by his looks and if the looks are not up to par she doesn’t even consider anything else, she passes. And here their standards are very high. Only last week, a friend of a friend asked me to approach a certain guy for potential shidduch. The guy was already taken but if you look at the two you could see the girl could not tell that she was out of her league. No sense of reality at all. She believes she can, but unfortunately she cannot. Whereas our guys, if a girl is “handsome” they will ask a question like “Does she have any money?” or “What kind of family does she come from?” etc. Our girls don’t even ask such questions.
Further, even if they go on a date, they have complaints like “I didn’t feel anything” They were told by someone that when they meet their bashert they will feel butterflies in their stomach… Well, I would gladly prescribe some Epson Salts for them to feel some butterflies.
Men are like parking spaces…all the best ones are taken, and the rest are handicapped.
I want to thank Heshy Fried and everybody who commented on this post for reminding me to be thankful for my husband and all of his wonderful attributes and qualities. He’s not perfect (but neither am I).
Come on. Bottom line whether you’re Jewish or not is that water seeks its’ own level, as well it should. I had a Jewish guy friend in Florida who looked like a toad. He kept messaging attractive women on JDate and kept getting whatever that kind of response is where they block you for life. I showed him five pictures of the type of women he should have been messaging – portly, bespectacled, very average looking – just like him. He got pissed at me but you know what? Seven years later and he’s STILL single.
If you are a smart, attractive, successful, financially strong woman, you have a right to expect the same in a man and better. A smart, attractive, successful financially strong man should be MORE than willing to support a woman of his ilk, as it is the MAN who should ALWAYS support the woman.
It’s the deviation away from this foundational value that is causing so much trouble these days. Men need to start getting back to being men (see: BREADWINNER) and women need to start getting back to being women (see: tending the home fire and caring for the children).
1) I disagree with the author’s premise. Chabad women are no more (and no less) attractive than any other women.
2) All women are beautiful. Some more so than others.
3) Beauty is superficial, p’shita. It doesn’t last. If you marry a woman (or a man) based on their beauty, what will you do in a few years, when they age?
4) Plastic surgery is NOT the solution to “the shidduch crisis”.
5) The purported crisis is the result of too many selfish expectations. You are not perfect. Why should you expect or demand perfection in your spouse – before or after marriage?
6) A spouse with good middos and other Torah values is to be treasured, no matter what he/she looks like externally.
7) Grow up.
Smart in Jersey, I hate to agree with you, but you are right! =o)
Now with cholent being served after weekday evening shiurim as well as Shabbos lunch there is now the problem of ” gassy” bochurim showing up for shiduch dates. I suggest that beano tablets be distributed widely at shuls and batei medrehiyot.
terrible to say. you are too funny.
as a married BT I can’t stand how unattractive frum wear makes women in comparison to secular women, just helps the yetzer hara if you ask me
Crown Heights is notorious for non tznious girls & women ,they basically make up their own rules besides some real frum chabad girls.The looks factor is a different story ,European Jews are far more attractive than American Jews,being mixed with European blood ,explains why Genuine chabad people (Gezher] not the fake BT influence which the real chabad people loath are more attractive ,same with other European Jews you will find a Jew from Williamsburg way more attractive than a Jew from Passaic.The features of an American Jew are less attractive of that of a European Jew or European ancestors
Interesting.
Frum girls are just as pretty, the problem is many dont know how to dress, they think they do, but the results (as noted above) speak for themselves. Many of these girls need nothing more than than a hairstyle and wardrobe change, and they’ll look a lot more appealing. They think being frum means dressing frumpy.
And the wigs are a whole other story
Unless someone is really horrific looking, the main problem across the frum community lies in a lack of social and/or personality skills. One can be average looking with a great personality and it’ll make outside appearances more attractive. The issue is the lack of good personality which can make anyone hard to look at and deal with. Even the most beautiful person on the outside is less attractive with a bland or disabled pesonality and social skills.
There is no such thing as “American Jews” in Lubavitch or anywhere else. Most Lubavitchers, (aside from the ones that aren’t), are of Eastern European descent. And why should marriage be based on something as superficial as physical beauty? Of course, there must be a sufficient degree of attraction, but that shouldn’t be the main focus.
My last comment explained how the crisis is due to a lack of compromise. Today I want to add that its also due to porn and Hollywood … some consider it the same but I digress.
Heshy – all so true.
You’re a misogynistic piece of crap, but I don’t think you care. It’s not funny or intelligent to call people ugly. EVER. This blog is so full of shit. Do you know how many frum girls have eating disorders? Do you want more frum girls to have eating disorders? You’re a sadist.
This problem is getting worse in the Dati Leumi community in Israel too, and not just among the girls but among the guys too. When I was in Israel in the late 80s, early 90s, Dati Leumi girls dressed neatly in fitted denim and other skirts that hung just below their knees. Their clothes gave a basic shape to their bodies without being too tight or immodest. The guys wore fitted jeans, clean shirts, and when they weren’t in shul, shorts, even short shorts, as well as sandals.
Today the girls and guys alike in the Dati Leumi world, especially with the influence of the settlers, have practically caught up to the Haredim–ill fitting, baggy clothes, filthy tzitzit hanging in haphazard fashion, dirty-looking snoods, and of course, the latest sneakers showing a level of materialism and sacrificing of culture. Mind you, the secular Israeli men have deteriorated as well, having embraced American fashion of ten years ago–loose, baggy, ill-fitting, etc.