Did you know there is a League of Important Poskim (LIP)? Indeed there is! The LIP are the team of rabbis who make important decisions about halacha. Hint: you can list what you think those might be in the comment section below. The League has been featured in many comic books, and even a movie.
I bet you remember the plot: There is the aging Rav Avi Kvattermain – who is the leader of the va’ad – I mean League. He gets contacted by the mysterious “Ech” — you know the letter Ech, — B – r -e – ech – ech -e – r (surely you heard of the famous Brecher phone call).
You probably know the story of how the League meets Rav Nemon, the captain of the Kosherterifica cruise ship, and his mysterious friend Dovid Grey at a rabbinical conference. They have also been seen with Dr. Yankel and Mr. Zeiyde. And they have to save the city of Vilna from the destructive forces of the chassidim organized under the banner of “FrumSatire-nicks”
OK, fine. I’m joking. But there really is a League of Important Poskim out there. I know this because someone sent me a link to the following website (kosherliquorlist.com) that lists which wines and spirits are kosher — according to the League of Important Poskim. Seriously. Check out the certification on the whiskey:
Kashrut Clasification: Kosher according important poskim
See — that’s the League of Important Poskim at work right there!
Indeed, they are no threat to FrumSatire — but they do have a different natural enemy – The League of Unimportant Poskim. The LUP is the group that puts the “K” on products that we don’t think need kashrus anyway. They also put “K”‘s on the scoreboard during baseball games, showing when a strikeout is really Kosher (according to them — as if anyone holds of them – ha!). But don’t worry , they are, by definition, Unimportant.
We’re not sure what it takes to become a member of the League of Important Poskim — but now that we have seen them reveal themselves as the machshirim of good scotch, you can start looking for them at your local Kiddush Club.
Very good! (I didn’t see the label when I checked, but I’ll take your word for it). The LUP reminds me of the evil organization SCHLEP from the “You don’t have to be Jewish” tape. Man, I haven’t heard that since I was a kid!
So which “league of Rabbis” was it that put the hechsher on my cell phone, and took off the ability for it to text or check my email?
Hey I can’t use the internet or text either, but that’s because I’m cheap and I drop my phone so much that none of that stuff works. Who’s the pious one now biatch!
All joking aside ive heard that whiskey needs a hechsher, makes sense why would it be different than other foods, even if all ingrediants are kosher they may be made in nonkosher utensils amongst other issues
Some poskim discuss an issue regarding the “noten ta’am” aspect of aged sherry casks. Others don’t find this to be an issue. One ruv I know claims that there is no need for a hechsher on poison, and he took the view that whiskey is simply expensive poison that is really not fit to consume (yes, I agree, he’s an idiot).
Industry insiders know that putting a kosher symbol would kill sales (I recently had a conversation with a former CEO of a major parent company in this market). So having lists or verbal traditions (e.g. I know that rav so and so had X in his bar…) is the only effective way to go. Kashrut.com posts the CRC list of “recommended” spirits.
To me the funny part is that in matters that you think are binary (is or is not kosher) instead you hear flimsy words like “recommended” and “important poskim”. What the hell does that mean anyway?
i’m surprised you have touble understanding why “not recommended” is used instead of “non-kosher” you say it is binary “is or not kosher” yet earlier in your post you identified a machlokes regarding sherry casks, it is not binary at all (very little actualy is). There are prominent poskim who hold sherry casks are fine, and whose adherents follow their psak, thus for another organization to label those whiskeys as “not kosher” is in poor taste intstaed they label the more neutral “not recomended”
hope this helps.
As for “important poskim” that isnt a term you’ll find on any official website.
John,
instead of “not recommended” I’d say “not accepted by those who hold of psak X” — or some pithier but direct explanation. We have Kosher for Sfardim, regarding kitniot. Gebrokts and non-gebrokts, for those who hold of those issues. etc. A factual statement. No one is looking for a “recommendation”, they are looking for clarity on facts. Statements like “pas yisrael” “yoshon” and “not made in sherry casks” are facts. “Not recommended” is a phrase that usually means “We are pissed off that the rabbi who said it is OK because he is not following some va’ad rule, but we can’t honestly say it’s treif — so we will say “not recommended” in the hopes that it will place economic pressure on him to bow to the va’ad.” That’s what not-recommended usually means when I see it.
As for “important poskim” — the fact is that I saw it on a website (which I linked to) and that was the inspiration for this post. Someone thought it was a meaningful phrase. I think its laughable because it implies the existence of unimportant poskim.
London Bet Din lists “important poskim.” No clue as to WHO these “important poskim” are or who thinks these poskim are important. Ireland solved the wine cask problem – effective 2010, no Irish whisky will be aged in casks formerly used for wine – that’s the law. FWIW, I hold that whisky aged in wine casks – for the purposes of color and taste – is not acceptable (unless the wine formerly in the cask was kosher). But that’s just me and I’m hardly either a posek or important.
Generally in the kasharus industry not recommended means that there is another hechsher on the product that other organizations don’t hold of. Some kashrus agencies have turf wars, for instance here in SF we have a hechsher called KORC which is kind of like the tablet K in that it is mostly on cheeses which use vegetarian rennet (which is still assur according to anyone who keep fully kosher) and the northern california vaad can’t officially say it’s not kosher, they can only say it’s not recommended.
I’ll give you a “not recommended” scenario:
The website “Kosher Starbucks” gives a holistic analysis on the kashrut level of Starbucks. Without getting into details, some of the products have a hechsher (i.e. the Milk is Chof-K, the syrups, coffee, and espresso are OU). But there are plenty of products (i.e. Frappucinos) that don’t have a hechsher.
Now, are we going to say that these non-hechshered products are not Kosher? That’s a bold statement. Now the Ham and Swiss sandwich, no matter how many Rabbis “bless” that, it will never be kosher. But those items such as the Frappucinos that don’t have a hechsher on them, there’s nothing in the ingredients that’s mamash treif (cf. “Ham and Swiss”), but because there still is a bit of a safeq due to the lack of a Rabbi who “blessed” it, the website will say that those items are simply “Not Recommended”. But as for those items such as the sandwiches, if you really need to ask if they’re kosher or not, that’s another story.
As an aside, I will once in a while joke with a customer that I got a Rabbi on my speed dial in case they need someone to bless their Frappucino for them. But only after I’ve made it clear to them that I’m not just some lovable goy who studied up on the laws, but one who actually was raised frum and understands firsthand how the laws of kashrut function.
Heshy,
The LIP may be powerful, but don’t discount the influence of their rivals, the Team of Choshuva Rabbonim! I seeking the TCR everywhere. Tzadakot are endorsed by Choshuva Rabbonim. Flyers in Brookyn declare a yom tfilla declared by Choshuva Rabbonim. When my charedi cousin can’t summon logical arguments, he tells me that Choshuva Rabbonim say that I am wrong and that I’m not on a level to argue with them. Yes, the TCR is very powerful!
Heshy, you left out that other all important differentiator. The guy in the black hat says, “We don’t rely on Rabbi xyz.” As he says it he drops his voice as if he has just reported that this is embarrassing for him to say and he would rather you not press him because of lashon horah, yah dee dah. So he has accomplished his mission and skirted the lashon horah issue to the extent of having plausible deniability. Of course, you can then press him. His voice will turn whiny as he says well, some say he is____. The list that follows is so generic that I think they get it off an Iphone app which does not even correlate with the hechsher, just with the audience. To a chosid he will say, I saw him eating matzo balls at a seder. To a right wing litvak it will be “let me just say, he wears blue shirts.” Someone else will be told, “He has a YU smichah, and he really holds by him.” Faced with an MO target he will retreat into, “I am not saying, chas v’chalilah his food is not kosher, but I hear he is a poor administrator and you know how complex kashrus is. If the MO is a wingnut he will say, “He believes in a hechsher tzedek as if we need more regulation.” The essential thing is that these guys have a full reptoire of lines for character assasination.
If you want to get into kosher certification there is a guide by yours truly: http://wp.me/pFbfD-1e
I encountered those “important poskim” when researching Scotch for a blog entry (http://yohanon.blogspot.com/2011/08/your-preferred-scotch-kosher-or-not.html). I also have seen a son take a more stringent stand than his father (both Ashkenazi rabbis). While Chivas (sherry casks) is a favorite of another rabbi I know, the rabbi down the street won’t accept Chivas. My recommendation: Drink Irish. Ireland’s parliament passed a law prohibiting Irish whisky being aged in (former) wine casks. Erin go bah !