I am not a secular Jew so undoubtedly this post was flawed from the start. I have many secular and non-religious Jewish friends and family. As the series of Stuff Jewish People like moves down the line, I am randomly picking groups of which I can make fun. The other problem with this post is that while many orthodox Jews consider conservative and reform Jews to be secular, they aren’t actually so – so I just kind of lumped everyone that isn’t orthodox together.
Stuff secular Jews like:
Kosher Style: I find it kind of sad that the most popular “kosher” delis in New York are all treif. Actually, it kind of sucks. Katz’s, Carnegie Deli and 2nd ave Deli are all kosher style. Secular Jews love a good pastrami sandwich no matter how kosher it actually is. Even Schimmels Knish shop isn’t kosher. Kosher Style means that it has the style of kosher food (like the pastrami sandwich) without actual rules of kashrut.
Holocaust Remembrance: There is nothing wrong with being obsessed with the Holocaust. It is a good thing to be obsessed with one of the strangest and most terrible events of the modern era, especially since the anti-semitic events in Europe are heating up again.
Tikkun Olam: Secular Jews are obsessed with Tikkun Olam.
Social Justice: I think social justice may be the modern day catchphrase like Tikkun Olam. To secular Jews, things like AIDS, Darfur and the environment are as important as Jewish causes if not more so. Who cares what Glenn Beck says?
Democrats: Almost every non-religious Jew I know is a democrat. Most secular Jews always go on rants how they can’t understand why any Jew would be part of the Republican party – the frummies do the same about the Democrats.
Kosher in the home: I recently went to someone’s house that keeps kosher in the home. I looked in their fridge and nothing was kosher. I decided to ask them and they told me that they don’t eat any non-kosher animals and have separate dishes for milk and meat. This is not the norm – I know plenty of secular Jews that keep mostly kosher in the home – save for some shady hechshered products and things like maple syrup that they think doesn’t need to be certified kosher.
Lifting people on chairs: I never knew it was a distinctly Jewish concept to lift people up on chairs at weddings but I guess according to the secular Jewish crowd it is. At Orthodox weddings they do tables and at secular weddings they pretend to be frum by doing the napkin holding thing.
Bagels: I didn’t grow up thinking that bagels were a Jew food, I just thought Jews liked them because they were cheap. The obsession with bagels just doesn’t reach the orthodox community.
Manishevetz: The only time I have ever seen Jews drinking Manishewitz was in yeshiva and that was only because the winery was located near the yeshiva and we got free wine. I have heard from several people that they thought the only kosher wine was Manishewitz and they had to be convinced otherwise.
Shiksa: There are countless books written about shiksas and their appeal to Jewish men, frummies use it negatively and secular Jews use it endearingly. I wonder if the term shiksas are for practice came out of frum or secular minds.
Hebrew School: It seems that everyone hates Hebrew school and that kids who end up not going to Hebrew school are more likely to remain within the fold. What goes on in Hebrew School anyway?
Talit: Secular Jews are obsessed with wearing their Talesim whenever they enter a shul. The men and women both wear them and they always wear them like a scarf, they also wear them at every prayer service and very rarely are they plain old black and white. Secular Jews come up with some pretty strange looking Talitot.
Affiliations: As an orthodox Jew I never really cared much about affiliations, within orthodoxy it’s all about little things like dress and yarmulke style. In other movements it’s about theology – mostly because non-orthodox Jews like to screw with the theology and their views every time they realized their last change failed.
Healthy Food: Secular Jews are all about eating healthy and light, go for shabbos once and you will see a table of salads, fish and dairy – it’s really a terrible thing not to eat meat on shabbos.
Kabbalah: What is the deal with kabbalah? Secular Jews go nuts over it and Chabad were the first ones to realize they could market chassidus as kabbalah.
Interfaith: Secular Jews love interfaith events where they get together and try to open each others minds to why their religion is so open minded. They usually bribe Muslims to come with promises of food and the ability to scope out the shuls floor plan before the next terrorist attack.
Chanukah: Secular Jews are really into Chanukah. It may have something to do with the Adam Sandler song or their need to feel different then the Goyim, while still trying to gain acceptance from them at the same time.
Other things secular Jews like:
Assimilation
Dr. Browns soda
Chinese Food
Women Rabbis – can someone give me some insight into why a google search of woman rabbis reveals that many of them are very ugly?
Hyphenated Names
Barbara Streisand
Bill Clinton
President Barack Obama
John F Kennedy (frummies blame him for demoralization of society because he was the first president not to wear a hat)
Debbie Freedman
Rabbi Akiva
Colorful Yarmulkes
Decorum in shul – non-religious shuls are super quiet with no bimah clopping, children running amok or mumbling reminders to say ya’ale v’yavo.
High Holiday tickets
Matzo Ball Soup
Klezmer music
Yiddish Culture
Pesach Seders
Stuff Secular Jews don’t like:
Orthodoxy: I love getting secular Jews riled up about orthodoxy and it seems they love ranting about it. Unlike Orthodox Jews, secular Jews don’t think we are any more or less Jewish than them.
Charedim: This one’s pretty obvious
Halacha: Ever since the 1950’s takana that gave conservative Jews a “heter” to drive to and from shul on shabbos, secular Jews have had a strange relationship with halacha. They don’t want to just throw it all away, so they pick out stuff to keep and stuff to break, I am kind of surprised that no one has rewritten the torah yet. I am also wondering when the really short secular Jewish Kitzur Shulchan Aruch is going to be released — the Kitzur Kitzur Shulchan Aruch?
Cholent: Whenever I get into food discussions with secular Jews they tell me they make funky cholent. This means that instead of cholent they make bean stew, or lentil soup or chicken in a crock pot. Secular Jews don’t do cholent.
Large Families: When’s the last time you saw a secular Jewish family with 8 kids?
Taharas Ha’mishpacha: Secular Jews think family purity laws are the worst thing in the world. It’s demeaning to the women (who have control over their sex lives now) to be called impure, why is a natural phenomena impure.
Kiruv: Kiruv organizations are like missionaries. They convince young impressionable college kids to leave their secular lifestyles and become religious — a terrible thing if you aren’t religious and fear religious people.
Settlements: It kind of goes along with the general left wing nature of things, so while many secular Jews are into Israel, many of them do not like the settlement concept.
My computer is still experiencing technical difficulties can only access open networks, this is why posts are a little more sporadic than usual and my responses to comments and emails have been greatly reduced, I hope to fix the problem by the end of the week.
We don’t say “shul”, we prefer “temple”
I thought my home synagogue’s assistant rabbi (female) is relatively good-looking.
In general, you’re mostly on the money, though (popularized) kabbalah is a goyishe fad, not a secular Jewish one.
Also,
And affiliations/theology seem to be just as big in Orthodoxy (which crazy new chumrot you keep on the theology side, not to mention the fact that the number of categories of Orthodoxy [based on the generally accepted Frumster model] greatly exceeds that of non-Orthodoxy, and the huge deal you make out of them …
I have to agree with Meir here. Liberal Jews have 3 categories (R,C, and reconstructionist). Orthodoxy has tons of Hasidic sects, Charedim, Modern Orthodox, Yeshivish and everything in between.
Heshy did you say, “non-religious” shul? I think you must mean Non-OJ Synagogue or Temple
Hesh just gave me a complex because I’m not secular, pretty observant Conservative yet I fit many of your descriptions…I better go see a psychologist stat!
There’s a restaurant in a strip mall in Lake Success, NY that has a kosher sign in Hebrew big enough to be seen from the street. I stopped in there for lunch and I didn’t see a single yarmulka in the joint. I asked the manager who supervises the kashrus. He said the USDA. I guess that would fall somewhere between ‘kosher style’ and the treif restaurant in Williamsburg.
Shiksapeal!
My sentiments exactly! I have plenty of shiksa friends and greatly prefer this term to “shiksas are for practice” – that actually made me angry the first I read it…
Stuff secular Jews like:
*lawyers and lawsuits
Stuff religious Jews like:
*rabbinic courts and heters
But honestly, I used to eat at Yonah Schimmel’s before I began keeping Shabbat. Now, I almost exclusively eat at shomer shabbos eateries. It’s strange seeing a portrait of the knishery’s namesake on the wall. He was a shomer shabbat immigrant from Romania.
It’s also odd how secular Jews enjoy klezmer music, keeping alive a centuries-old Yiddish tradition of clarinets and violins, while frummies are rocking to “Shaya and Perry” wedding parody.
How insightful. I had never thought of this. Terrific point.
Everybody lets get ready for shaya, shaya , shaya and perry!!
to be fair though, the frummies there had no idea what song it was or who made it 🙂
Actually, I’ve been told that Klezmer wasn’t even frum to begin with. Remember that back in the day, Yiddish wasn’t exclusively for the frummies, but even the secular European Jews spoke it. You had plenty of publications such as The Forward (“Der Forvertz”), which was run by leftists, and very instrumental in helping new immigrants adjust to America. In fact, my Zeide (a musmach of Chofetz Chaim) tried getting a job for them, but he didn’t last very long, as they were pretty anti-religious back then.
Klezmer for the most part is Jewed up gypsy-folk fused with typical European conservatory music, et al. I tend to associate klezmer with Reform Jews. It is my understanding that the frum crowd was more into chazzanut and chassidish niggunim. I myself can’t stand most Klezmer out there (except Andy Statman). And I’m one of those weirdos out there who hasn’t been to shul in over 4 years but still loves listening to chazzanut and chassidish niggunim.
of course women rabbi’s are ugly, they have to match their male counterparts, when have you ever heard a girl say, “wow, that rabbi is so hot, such a sexy beard!”?
i get it all the time 😉
2nd Ave is kosher, although not shomer shabbos.
We ate there as kids – but 99% of people would say that a fleishig restaurant cannot be kosher if it is open on shabbos.
More people eat there than you would imagine.
99% of “people?” Of course you mean 99% of Orthodox people.
people who keep kosher
Most modern Orthodox will rest at places like 2nd avenue. Haredim won’t, but some of them don’teat OU products, most don’t eat Hebrew National, or heckshare either. And many of these statements are just plain wrong. I don’t know anybody v that v days they are kosher because they separate meat and fairy
Some may not have their meat glatt. Dinner may buy plain tomato sauce or maple syrup without the company bribing a shady rabbi to say the food was kosher. But the somewhat nadty lies from this so called from person are v way of target.
I understand that many harefi will agree with this garbage, but I grew up with tzitzzit wearing Orthodox Jews that would eat an egg from any diner, on their plates. And use their silverware. The world had changed since then, and had become less tolerant and just judgmental and immoral with regard to their view of jrws that don’t practice as they do.
Sorry. Eat, not rest.
I’m glad you’re back in the “how to judge your fellow Jews” mode. You need to do one on Ba’aley Tshuva next.
Regarding delis, there are actual kosher ones. Like Gottlieb’s (which you mentioned in another post) and Eli’s (which is now closed, but was in the same building as the Barnes & Noble on 53rd St.).
I think both real kosher delis and kosher-style delis should be grouped in a new category called “Tenement Nostalgia Food”.
Does anyone know about Fine & Shapiro’s on the Upper West Side. I was confused when I went there because although on the outside the Hashgacha was from the infamous Rabbi Meyer Steinberg, inside they were playing the Out-Of-Tune-5-Year-Olds Music popular with the Frum crowd.
Secular Jews love having a picture on the wall of a bearded Orthodox Jew. Bonus points if he is wearing talis and tefillin.
SO true…
I once knew a guy who displayed such a picture on his wall. He would solemnly introduce it as “my father, of blessed memory”. His real father was a non-Jew.
too real, we have a picture of my rabbi great-grandfather on our wall!
orthodox jews also almost always have pictures of bearded orthodox rabbsi on their wall
Jews by definition are not “secular” and definitely those that identify with Judaism, albeit different than ours, should not be called that term.
In fact The Rebbe did not like that people call the non-orthodox in Israel Chilonim (Seculars) because a Jew is by definition non-secular. A Jew is holy.
awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
I bet secular Jews hate this article because it’s so on the money about them. They love to to go temple once a year and make sure anyone setting foot in there paid a whole lot of $. They used to have an all day Yiskor in the FHJC when I was a kid, just one yiskor after the other on Yom Kippur in the gym. They must have loved that.
Old secular Jews love Florida condos and playing canasta and mahjong.
I bet Orthodox Jews hate it when people point how insular and reactionary certain communities are. How they riot, create new chumros, and protect abusive, money laundering rabbis.
After all why shouldn’t they pissed when you take a common stereotype and use it cover all jews of a certain group?
Sure they do, David, because we all know that no conservative or reform rabbi has ever done anything wrong. Now what was that story about the Reform rabbi in NJ who murdered his wife a few years ago?
The difference is how it’s handled.
The Reform and Conservative rabbinates have ethics policies and boards which are perfectly willing to throw rabbis out and report them to the police.
The Orthodox have no respect for any laws except their own. When a charedi rapes little children, steals, defrauds the taxpayers or endangers the lives of Jews by ignoring building codes and fire regulations you can predict what will happen. The criminal will be declared a tzaddik. Anyone with a long scraggly beard will scream that it’s all anti-Semitism and a yid can’t get a fair trial in galus. The victims will be ostracized as a moser, and their kids will never get shidduchim.
It’s only the “Real Torah Jews” who riot and use deadly weapons on innocent people when they don’t get their way. They have the manners and morals of spoiled children who throw tantrums because unreasonably tolerant people let them get away with it.
You say I’m stereotyping? It’s not fair? Well, then the Great Old Ones – the “gedolim”, the rabbis, the rosh yeshivas and the rest of that panhandling crew of thieves and scoundrels can bloody well prove me wrong. Obey the law. Turn criminals over to the police. Stop protecting the baby rapers, the murderers and the thieves. Until then? The “community” is a boil on the butt of Judaism.
really, “deadly weapons,” do you have any examples?
were you ever frum?
Stoning people is assault with a deadly weapon.
It’s not about the Chareidim not caring about raping and child molesting, because every decent human being cares, and they’re not thaat bad. In fact it’s against the Torah, and the victim is also Cahredi. This is about protecting each other like a family member, which even if one is wrong you still protect him because you love him.
Within the frum community I don’t usually tend to hear the term anti-Semitism for any of the stuff you mentioned except for legitimate situations, in fact they usually make fun about it. And yes indeed it is harder for frum Jew with a beard and Peyos to be as attractive in the eyes of a jury as someone else.
I don’t think you deserve to be proven wrong, because you didn’t prove any of the stuff you laid down in your post. It was all backed up by your own fellow words, and not with any other reliable backup.
Charnie,
Are you genuinely berating secular jews , or are you doing it in good fun? If its the former, you need to not be so judgmental and practice real judaism.which is not based on the exterior ritualistic adherance. Judaism 101, which you seemingly failed teaches “Love your neighbor as you love yourself” , ” That which is hatfeful to you dont do to others.” Judging by your defensive response to David’s comment you obviously dont like it when secular jews stereotype and judge orthodox jews, so dont do it others. You are obliged to be more accepting tolerant and less judgemental of people without looking at yourself as superior. Becoming more religious when done properly , guides you to a way of life that makes you an example to others of what Hashem expects of his people. Not to a place of feeling superior to others and looking down on them for not being as halachacly observant.
Good thing I have a post on the things Charedim like – such as rioting and protecting child molestors.
Heshy , you’re hilarious.
I am genuinely entertained and offended simultaneously when i read your posts. It’s the weirdest conflicting feeling.
Are you really an a-hole or are you actually a tolerant jew in real life?
“A fanatic is someone that is a drop MORE religious than you, a heretic is someone that is a drop LESS religious than you!”
Hahhaaa. What ever happened to not judging others?
Services on Friday night never on Saturday morning. Treif food at Bar Mitzvahs. Asking witnesses (aydim) at weddings if they can sign their names in Hebrew. Intermarriages under a chupah. The awful silk kippah.
“Intermarriages under a huppah”
Have you any idea how long it takes to find a rabbi who’s willing to perform an interfaith wedding under a huppah? We had to ship one from Upstate NY into Brooklyn… and he charged triple the going rate too!
” we had to ship one” lol very funny
I hear your acknowledgment that you lumped all non-orthodox Jews together, but considering that’s most Jews, you are cutting off a lot of potential groups to make fun of. So for the record, secular Jews by very far and large don’t keep kosher in the home, wear knitted yarmulkes or Tallit, or buy High Holy Day tickets. Religious Jews do. Religious Jews who belong to the two largest religious Jewish denominations in the US. Secular Jews do have quirks of their own, though. Like Nobel Prizes and disproportionate conversion rates to Buddhism. Okay, and Tikkun Olam and bagels.
When I hear you call many women rabbis ugly, I feel sad, and curious as to why you would say that. I wonder if 1. you find that a funny thing to say, 2. you are trying to bait people, or 3. you are sincere. If you happen to have been sincere, the answer to your question is that you don’t know what real women actually look like because you have been influenced by the media to the point that you can’t actually look at pictures of normal or accomplished women without comparing them to airbrushed, photoshopped etc. photos of models and actresses whose livelihoods are dependent on them putting much energy into looking a certain way. Also you might find that you don’t enjoy looking at these women because they trigger something else in you that has nothing to do with their appearance. As a general rule, men who find accomplished or empowered women threatening often do try to demean them by saying they are ugly or somehow not really women.
Also, if they are ugly. Anna Kournikova? Accomplished AND hot.
lilith,
are you a female rabbi?
if you are you shouldn’t be offended. this is a website called frum satire. The comments should be taken with a grain of salt.
well said, very very funny heshy! I give this post an A+
I remember going to a bar mitzvah at the local reform congregation and being profoundly uncomfortable as one of the only people there wearing a kippah…Also, the whole talit as a scarf thing is primary women and altercokers (sp?). It stems from the Fifties when it was a more “mainstream” thing to do. As a Conservative/Masorti Jew, I wear a full size tallit, as does my father, and almost all the other males in our congregation. I don’t feel we are “obsessed” with tallit, not withstanding that most liberal Jews follow the tradition of starting to wear it after bar mitzvah. Other than that, especially for Reform and actually Secular (Cultural?) Jews I’d say the majority of that is spot on. Except for the mani. Honestly, I don’t think anyone actually likes the stuff…
– RC
Charedim: This one’s pretty obvious
It’s the one thing we have in common with the Modern Orthodox.
Btw, you are, of course, conflating Liberally religious Jews with hardline secularists, but for the sake of satire, that’s ok.
Most (English-speaking) non-observant Jews use the term “Ultra-Orthodox”, not Charedim. Where someone puts the line between Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox is anyone’s guess.
Whenever I come back from Shabat, my family asks me if the people I stayed with are Orthodox or Chasidim. Being that they have no idea what Nusach Sfard is , I translate that to be: “Do they dress like a Prohibition Era gangster or a Polish nobleman?”.
You are spot on with your rant!
Also, they love to consider the orthodox crowd – “close-minded” and archaic – while they have all the answers! They are the biggest “no-it-all”s around… You can’t possibly tell them what to do, or try to convince them of another point of you – so who is really close-minded???
Also, you forgot to mention – Israel and the Star of David- they are super-obsessed with the Magain Dovid – when was the last time you saw a really frum chick waering one?? But the secular – it makes them Jewish!!
I love all Jews, btw, and i live in Palm Beach County – over 95% secular Jews – even in the Orthodox shul – on Shabbos 90% of the people drive!
Yup, feeling the love here – NOT!
Heshy, I’m enjoying your “Stuff ___ Jews Like” series. I fully expect an OTD edition!
Tova, Sorry to bother you, but I’m still eagerly awaiting what it is that youve seen at most frummy weddings that indicated they didnt like each other.
And yes, Im going to keep asking you until you either share your observations or admit that it was a baseless accusation. Thank you
“Sorry to bother you”
???? ??? ????…
Oh, I guess Hebrew doesn’t work on this site.
Could you please at least tell me why you wont tell me. Its got to be more than just intellectual dishonesty.
incidentely what is it with you OTD’ers and intellectual dishonesty? but thats a different disscussion.
I told you that most of the weddings I go to involve couples who don’t seem to like each other. The statement itself was pretty self-explanatory.
Why must everything I write involve a detailed explanation? You wouldn’t have asked for an explanation if I had said anything different.
“Its got to be more than just intellectual dishonesty.”
OK, so now you’re saying that I am not only intellectually dishonest but am also some other nasty thing.
“incidentely what is it with you OTD’ers and intellectual dishonesty?”
What is it with chareidim (notice I did not say “you chareidim”) and their seeming need to be a snob?
I’m done playing your game, “John”. Keep bothering me, by all means – but I will no longer respond to your machinations.
I think it is a fair question, I’ve been to countless weddings and I’m very curious as to what youve seen at any let alone most that led you to this conclusion. (If it was crying at the chupa, i think I can explain, if he covered her face its not because he couldnt stand the sight of her. ok so that was a joke, donrt get mad) The statment does not seem self-explanatory at all, (if it is please forgive my naivete and just spell it out for me) you merely say youve observed couples who didnt like each other. What did you observe, im really dying to know.
Please Please tell me. Is there anyway youd tell me? a private email perhaps?
Im not sure how I’m being a snob youve made a (baseless ?) accusation against my community and refuse to elaborate, how does that make ME a snob.
It’s really sad, you know? I told him I won’t play his game any longer, yet he keeps asking. Must be a tic or something.
i always knew we were parasites, its finaly nice to know what kind I am
There is, of course, a difference between a tick and a tic. But since you want to be offended, there’s nothing anyone can say that will get around it.
BTW I’ve been following this converstaion I guess the being notified of followup comments can get annoying. Why don’t you just humor him and elaborate and be done with it. After all he does raise a valid point.
Stuff OLD secular Jews like:
Going to EVERY SINGLE POSSIBLE Jewish event they can find, whether a speaker, a Chagall exhibit, whatever. At speaking events, old secular Jews will nod continuously and ask really annoying, basic questions which were probably discussed during the lecture. They are also prone to make comments instead of questions, really long ones at that.
Now that is the one I have the biggest problem with because it is so annoying but here are some other things old secular Jews like:
-old folks homes (because Ashkenazi Jews do not let their parents live with them)
-the card game, bridge
-the opera
-the theater
-other elite things from the 19th century
Things secular Jews do not like:
-Honestly, minorities (I could see the movie, Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner, happening in so many secular Jewish homes)
-Blue collar people
-Hebrew (because they don’t know it and most cannot read it)
Things young secular Jews like:
-DRUGS
Ok these comments are really pissing me off.
1) Secular jews don’t like minorities? are you kidding me? One minute u attacks us for our high intermarriage rate and then say we don’t like minorities? choose one!!
2) Young secular jews like drugs? are u f**cking kidding me. According to Heshy’s definition “secular” Jews include 80-85% of all Jews. Can you really make such a generalization or any generalization for that matter about such a large amount of jews?
1) The intermarriage rates are high but are the intermarriages with traditionally disenfranchised minorities? (ie mexicans, blacks, native americans….)
2) Yes the secular Jewish youth like drugs. Go to college and see. I have a theory that Jews have a genetic predisposition towards liking pot. Also, if you look at famous hippies, like over half of them are Jews.
Note: Making generalizations is really fun and something ALL Jews do. It is what unites kodesh beyn chol.
I don’t know about today, but at one point I did read that a disproportionate number of interracial marriages between whites and blacks were between Ashkenazi ( or other white appearing) Jews and blacks. Like a disproportionate number of the white civil rights activists fighting largely for the rights of black people in the 60s were white appearing Jews. And yeah, I would guess most of them were secular, in the non-religious sense.
True, according to the demographers and vital statistic geeks.
The “White-appearing” thing is good to remember. We’re Middle Eastern which means “Only White until Protestants want to kill you.”
Apparently, there are three dealers at my college and they’re all Jewish.
I wrote that last comment
Fine, I’ll hand to you there, making generalizations with broad strokes unite us 🙂
still as a young conservative (according to website secular) jew, the thing about drugs still bothers me
The drugs issue has been around for a long time and its the elephant in the room. If you want to talk about one of the causes of intermarriage, you have to talk about DOPE! The Jewish kids I grew up with did lots and lots and lots of dope. They were mean and spoiled too. Thats why I’m intermarried.
If you want to see racism, hang out in frum communities. I have never in my entire life ever have witnessed so much racism against Blacks, Asian and Latinos. I was disgusted and embarassed to be around them…
Young R Jews all like to do drugs??? Whaat?? Do me a favor, go to Yerushalayim and walk around. A lot of “frum” boys are drinking and smoking marijuana, boys that go to Belz, Meer not just OJ or Neer Jake.
Most Jews are non-religious…most Israelis are non-religious, and they all speak/read PROPER Hebrew fine, not this crappy Yeshivishe Hebrew that I have to teach…
I have had better friendships with non-religious Jews, who are a lot more supportive of individual choice and thinking for yourself.
And the opera and theatre are wonderful works of Mankind that H’ Himself created for us to enjoy.
I am saddened by your comments and what you will teach your children if you ever have any.
While it’s easy to point at the “picking and choosing” of halachah among non-Orthodox Jews, it’s alive and well within Orthodoxy too. Cholov Yisroel? Yashan? Haircovering? Lashon Hara? Pick what your friends and neighbors are practicing, and ditch the rest. We all do it.
Don’t forget neglecting big things over small things — people should be more worried about eating yoshon than checking for bugs.
How do you figure? Never mind the fact that eating bugs involves multiple prohibitions (see gemara in makos for the full count it ranges 4-6) and the fact that there are rishonim who hold the prohibition on chadash doesnt apply outside Israel (or without the temple, for that matter), Even if you’ll say it is forbidden to eat chadash, we don’t assign importance to laws all are important, people should be worried about both
I hope you guys know… by being Jews yourselves, you aren’t exempt from loving your fellow Jews?
Make fun, but remember that the world follows your example.
Be careful of the images you guys project of youselves. Jewish people have been entrusted by G-d with the responsibility of being a light among the nations. (You still are, even when you’re making fun of yourselves among yourselves.)
Right on. I’ve had this discussion several time with several different people varying in how religious they are. The sad truth is that while it doesn’t matter to those who hate Jews (certainly didn’t matter to Hitler) how observant you are, it does matter a great deal to fellow Jews. Case in point, Hesh’s “Orthodoxy” item in the list of things secular Jews don’t like: “Unlike Orthodox Jews, secular Jews don’t think we are any more or less Jewish than them.” ‘Nuf said.
And now that I’ve ranted, as us secular Jews love to do :), I have to say that most of this is really spot on and made me feel all warm and fuzzy knowing that 80%-85% of Jews out there are just like me. Ahhh…
Esther, and Heshy for that matter, Im not sure what you mean, by “Jewish” If you mean it in a religious sense of course Orthodox jews think secular & conservative jews are less Jewish ie less practicing Jews, they are obviously. If you mean it in a biological or ethnic sense, then I’m sure you are aware we consider all Jews equal, once a Jew alaways a Jew in our view. (much too the disamy of many who want out)
Ive heard this complaint many times, and Im wondering what is meant by it. Hope you can help. Thanks
In case that wasnt clear Im referring to the line: “Unlike Orthodox Jews, secular Jews don’t think we are any more or less Jewish than them.”
I get what you’re referring to but here’s the thing:
More religious does NOT equal more Jewish.
I’m connfused please help, heres my thinking: There are two aspects to Judaism theres a Jewish Religion and an ethnicity. This is a big distiction from Christianity where If one doesnt believe anymore then he/she isnt christain, and all christians are by deffinition more christian than they are. Along the same lines If a Jew doesnt follow the Jewish religion then as far as the religion goes, he/she while an equal Jew in the ethnic sense is less of a Jew in the religious sense.
Which part do I have wrong? Is it your conntention that Judaism isnt a religion at all, just an ethnicity? If thats the case then yes all Jews are equal (nobody says otherwise). However if you accept that Judaism is a religion as well, doesnt it follow that Jews (in the ethnic sense) who arent religious, are less Jewish (in the religious sense) than Jews who are religious?
Actually, a Christian is always a Christian from the moment he/she converts. That part is permanent whether or not someone leaves the religion. There is no hierarchy, either one is a Christian, or one is not. It’s pretty simple.
No one is born into Christianity the way Jews are born into their religion/ethnicity though. That is one difference.
Intersting I never knew that. Thanks.
I have a question though, what difference does it make if after leaving the religion someone is still considred Christian. Dont Christians believe that all people have to believe in Christ regardless of what religion/ethnicity they are born into, or choose to be a part of? (Thankfuly this isnt enforced anymore unlike in the good ole days, but isnt that part of church dogma?)
(According to Judaism on the other hand (as you may know) only Jews need to follow the Torah, not others. however this applies to all Jews even those who “leave” the religion)
True, I did know that only Jews are required to follow the Torah. One thing though, that non-Jews follow the Jews who follow the Torah. God puts that into us just as He puts the responsibility on the Jews to be the light among the nations. Christians are aware of it, that is one way to find out who is a real Christian and who isn’t. If a Christian curses the Jews, he is an imposter and the spirit of God is for sure not in him!
I’m not sure what they call it among Catholics, but I’ve only met one person who attended parochial school who isn’t (l’havdil) OTD.
Technically Christians do believe everyone needs to accept Jesus regardless of religion/ethnicity. But we do not enforce it on everyone as a way of being dominant over everyone else. (Most people do not actively seek converts anymore.) It is because we are all related and all are effected by the same curse of sin from our ancestors in the garden of eden.
Speaking from the New Testament, acceptance of Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross takes away the power of sin to keep a person away from G-d.
On the subject of sin, Christianity looks at it as a condition which all people have been born with from the time Adam and Eve first sinned in the garden of Eden.
The first sin was committed out of an act of human free will and was passed down to all Adam and Eve’s decendants. That is why inorder to be freed from the condition of sin, a person has to accept the sacrifice of Jesus on cross. There is no remission (forgiveness of sin) without making a sacrifice. In Christianity, that sacrifice was given for us by God in the person of Jesus Christ. Sin came into the world through a man, so it also has to be forgiven through a man.
There really are only two parts to Christianity. One is to accept the sacrifice of Jesus, the other is to give your life over to God as a sacrifice of worship. That basically means that a Christian (if he dares call himself one) is supposed to practice putting God above himself and everything else he values in this life. The way a person finds out how to put God first, is by studying the Bible everyday and spending time in prayer.
Sometimes people who actively seek converts will not talk about the second part to Christianity, and so many Christians do not know they are supposed to be putting God above themselves. This does not make them any less Christian, only less informed maybe.
True, I did know that only Jews are required to follow the Torah. One thing though, that non-Jews follow the Jews who follow the Torah. God puts that into us just as He puts the responsibility on the Jews to be the light among the nations. Christians are aware of it, that is one way to find out who is a real Christian and who isn’t. If a Christian curses the Jews, he is an imposter and the spirit of God is for sure not in him!
I’m not sure what they call it among Catholics, but I’ve only met one person who attended parochial school who isn’t (l’havdil) OTD.
> If you mean it in a religious sense of course Orthodox jews think secular & conservative jews are less Jewish ie less practicing Jews, they are obviously.
It’s only obvious if you define “religious” as “adhering to a greater number of restrictions and performing more rituals.” If you define it as “attempting to live in accordance with God’s will (as you understand it) and to form a relationship with Him,” then Reform and Conservative Jews can be as or even more religious than Orthodox Jews.
Ah G*3 ive missed you, youre the only intellectually honest OTD’ers ive ever come across, nice to see you again. (Read through Tova’s conversation with John on this post and the other “stuff yeshivish people like” post, it would be funny if she wasnt so sad)
Your point is kinda valid, but you cant criticise Religious people who when they talk about being a “religious jew” mean it in the sense that it has been meant for all of history until the rise of the reform. Namely, following the Torah (or at least trying to).
By that definition my question remains. In the Judaism=religion sense, arent irreligious Jews, “less Jewish” as far as orthodox Judaism is concerned. Why all the fuss, whenever this point is made? Again just to reiterate all Jews are 100% full Jews in the ethnic sense. Unless Judaism isnt a religion at all, it would seem that on some level they are less Jewish
No, less religious does NOT make someone less Jewish. It is not up to you or any other PERSON to decide who is more or less Jewish. Do not judge lest you be judged.
You’re getting into semantics all of which amount to nothing more than “holier than thou” nonsense. That’s my issue and will remain my issue and the issue of anyone else being looked down upon by those such as yourself.
Whoa, looked down upon? I dont know you or anything about you. You are probably a wonderful human being.
You are right it is all semantics, and I hope this will clarify the confusion:
This is my premise. If Judaism is a religion then not adhering to Judaism makes you less Jewish.
(To avoid any arguments over different interpretations of Judaism, lets limit it strictly to religious (including charedi, Mo, conservative, Reform, or any other group who professes to be religious) vs. secular (i.e. strictly those who claim not to be adherents of Judaism in any religious sense.))
So again, Arent those who by their own admission have nothing to do with Judaism as a religion, less Jewish, after all Judaism is (partly) a religion?
I would have to agree with Stan to a point, that people might be less religious if they don’t practice Jewish Religion/Traditions. It also makes the example harder to follow if Jews are behaving like Gentiles.
I don’t think the traditions themselves make someone more or less Jewish, although it is much harder to assimilate lose Jewish identity if there is more adherance to the Torah.
P.S. Hopefully I didn’t knock anyone out too bad talking about my Christian beliefs up there. 😉
Yes, if someone doesn’t follow traditions, they are less religious, thus being less religious Jews, not less Jewish. I may not follow halacha but my relationship with G-d, my very identity (ethnic and religious) are mine and mine alone and it is not the place of any religious person, no matter how strictly they adhere to halacha, to judge me and my, for lack of a better term, degree of Jewishness. That is preposterous. Get off your high horses. That is one of the hugest turn offs about Orthodoxy.
I am an immigrant from the Ukraine. I am not religious because I, my parents and their parents were brought up in a place where it was not ok to practice any religion, least of all Judaism. It does not make me any less proud to be a Jew, nor does it diminish my desire to learn about the culture, laws and traditions of MY people. So, I come to a countly where my people are free to live as they choose and practice their religion freely only to be told BY MY PEOPLE that I am not Jewish enough. I ask you, not Jewish enough for whom? According to whose standards? Oh, the standards of Orthodoxy, I see. That only makes me reject Orthodoxy.
My favorite example of this “holier than thou” mentality, and Kim you’ll like this one, is a lesson I was taught in the fist 6 months in the country in a Yeshiva. Hierarchy on Earth, from the bottom up: inanimate objects, topped by plants, topped by animals, topped by people, drum roll please, topped by the Jewish people. That infuriated me. I understand we are the CHOSEN people, but chosen does not equal superiority, it equals responsibility. Judgemental folks ought to remember that.
I wanted to convert to Judaism not too long ago. Originally I was aiming for an Orthodox conversion, but could not find a Synagogue within walking distance. I was certainly not going to drive on Saturdays!
I was turned off by the “holier than thou” mentality, although not when it was leveled against Christians/non-Jews. I was raised with the same idea that Jews are the chosen people of God and that they are not “holier” than other peoples, just that Jews’ purpose in the world is different.
I became friends with an elderly Russian Jewish lady, who became like my confidant.
I grew up going to some really strict church schools, and having a speech disability back then, I was treated really bad by everyone including the adults.
My Reform Jewish friend probably saved my life with her values, since I wouldn’t pay attention to Christians. I hated them and was actually afraid of them. I did manage to hold on to Jesus and the idea of the Chosen people. I was able to come back to my faith after some time, I really never left it, I just left my fellow Christians for about 5 years.
I had no idea how important it is to have people in my life, and I had no idea that my spirit and faith were broken. My friend taught me to feel equal with other people again, and she gave all the credit to God and the values her Jewish parents raised her with.
Esther, this line of yours sums it up well: “for lack of a better term, degree of Jewishness.” thats exactly my point since there is no better term, and (by definition) orthodox jews believe that following the torah is the proper way to practice judaism those who dont, have a – for lack of a better term- lower degree of jewishness ie are less jewish, perhaps a better term would be “less of a religious jew” but that is kinda redundant because from a stand point viewing Judaism as a religion, by being less religious, that is inherently less jewish.
Again its great that you consider Jewss “MY People” and as far as people-hood goes we are all on the same page but as far as religion goes (and im not blaming you nor judging you) but you are less Jewish.
I wanted to convert to Judaism not too long ago. Originally I was aiming for an Orthodox conversion, but could not find a Synagogue within walking distance. I was certainly not going to drive on Saturdays!
I was turned off by the “holier than thou” mentality, although not when it was leveled against Christians/non-Jews. I was raised with the same idea that Jews are the chosen people of God and that they are not “holier” than other peoples, just that Jews’ purpose in the world is different.
I became friends with an elderly Russian Jewish lady, who became like my confidant.
I grew up going to some really strict church schools, and having a speech disability back then, I was treated really bad by everyone including the adults.
My Reform Jewish friend probably saved my life with her values, since I wouldn’t pay attention to Christians. I hated them and was actually afraid of them. I did manage to hold on to Jesus and the idea of the Chosen people. I was able to come back to my faith after some time, I really never left it, I just left my fellow Christians for about 5 years.
I had no idea how important it is to have people in my life, and I had no idea that my spirit and faith were broken. My friend taught me to feel equal with other people again, and she gave all the credit to God and the values her Jewish parents raised her with.
Esther, this line of yours sums it up well: “for lack of a better term, degree of Jewishness.” thats exactly my point since there is no better term, and (by definition) orthodox jews believe that following the torah is the proper way to practice judaism those who dont, have a – for lack of a better term- lower degree of jewishness ie are less jewish, perhaps a better term would be “less of a religious jew” but that is kinda redundant because from a stand point viewing Judaism as a religion, by being less religious, that is inherently less jewish.
Again its great that you consider Jewss “MY People” and as far as people-hood goes we are all on the same page but as far as religion goes (and im not blaming you nor judging you) but you are less Jewish.
@ Stan,
On the subject of the comparison made earlier of Jews to Christians. I noticed that the way Christianty was used in the conversation, it could have made another Jewish person feel “lesser.” Probably not intentionally I know.
I wasn’t trying to argue against you or against Orthodox Judaism. Hopefully my own comments on the subject of Christianity weren’t too harsh toward you or any other people out there.
Esther, from what I see here you sound like a 100% Jew. Please keep your connection to G-d and don’t let anyone ruin it?
Chosen does equal responsibility and definitely not superiority!
Why would anyone want to follow an example of people who are constantly chasing their own tails (so to speak)??
Remeber that G-d told us to love our neighbors (both Jews and Goyim).
Put G-d first and everything else will fall into place eventually.
> Ah G*3 ive missed you, youre the only intellectually honest OTD’ers ive ever come across
Why, thank you. I don’t think I actually fit the definition of “OTD,” though, since in terms of practice I’m more-or-less right-wing MO.
> cant criticise Religious people who when they talk about being a “religious jew” mean it in the sense that it has been meant for all of history until the rise of the reform.
I understand what you mean, but I have to point out that if you include “all of history” it hasn’t meant what you think. You’re implying that, historically, “religious” meant “rabbinic Judaism / Orthodoxy.” That’s just not so.
There were various sects while both Batei Mikdash were standing, including a few that we would consider idolatrous. (Fun fact: Once upon a time, most Jews believed that Hashem had a female consort. This feminine being was eventually conflated with the Shechina.) That Rabbinic Judaism became the dominant form, with its belief in Torah shel baal peh miSinai, among other things, is a quirk of history (or God’s hand, whichever you prefer). The competing sects were decimated by invaders or, in the case of the Tzedukim, became irrelevant after the destruction of the Beis HaMikdash.
Chassidus at one time was considered a heretical movement. Ironically, Chassidim are now the stereotype for Ultra-Orthodox.
Orthodoxy itself is as much a reaction to Reform as it is a continuation of traditional Judaism.
And finally, Reform Jews are religious. They believe in the existence of God and perform actions they think He wants. You seem to be using “religious” to mean “frum.” The words are not synonyms.
> Namely, following the Torah (or at least trying to).
The Reform and Conservative movements follow the Torah, they just disagree with Orthodox interpretations of it.
> Again just to reiterate all Jews are 100% full Jews in the ethnic sense.
“Jewish” isn’t really an ethnicity. I’m ethnically German, my wife is ethnically Russian, and we’re both Jewish. It’s fairly easy to differentiate a Russian Jew from a Moroccan Jew or even from a Western European Jew by phenotype, much harder to differentiate between a Jewish and non-Jewish Russian (or Moroccan, etc.) Nationality is probably a better word than ethnicity.
Good point, and thank you for that fun fact.
Ive simplified my argument as just religious vs. secular to avoid any disscusion over which interpretation of torah is correct.
A better reason for whicch Judasim cant be considred a ethnicity is the fact that geirm are full fledged Jews. Nationality is a better word
Since I don’t have the option to reply under the latest comment, I’ll just do it where its possible.
Stan – your viewpoint , your entire premise, is why I and so many others reject orthodoxy. You just cannot seem to understand that its not your place to judge someone else’s degree of Jewishness. That’s all there’s to it. Its just not your place.
I dont think that you understand my point. At the risk of sounding repetetive, I’ll try again. First of all I am deffinatly not judging. Now heres my premise from a different angle:
Take a Jewish self-professed atheist, one who announces that he/she is no longer a Jew. Is that person still a Jew? From a nationalistic viewpoint – of course (no matter how badly they want out). But from a Judaism=religion viewpoint I’d say by announcing you are not part of the religion, well then you are not. You can of course disagree with that, and say too bad atheist as far as your religion goes you are still Jewish, but I think my view of taking the atheist at his/her word is fair, and not offensive at all.
By extension then even without formally renouncing Judaism, someone who doesnt take part in the Jewish Religion (even if they are a wonderful Jewish person), as far as the Jewish religion goes I think its fair to say they are less of a jew.
Nationality as identity is an ongoing debate. Jews are unique because as a people we have been scattered all over the world. No matter where you are or where you’re from, you’re still Jewish.
Ask your Russian wife if she was considered Russian in Russia. As I’ve stated here somewhere, I’m from Ukraine and all my Ukrainian teachers listed me as Jewish, not Ukrainian in school documents (which invariably listed nationality). It was not until I came here that I became Russian (should have really become Ukrainian but folks from most of different parts of the former Soviet Union are generally lumped together as Russian, as long as they’re Russian-speaking).
My wife’s family hadn’t seen Russia for three or four generations before she was born, so she wouldn’t know. But my grandparents and great-grandparents considered themselves German, at least until the mid-30s.
In the case of my comment. I apologize that I’m not a Jew myself, but have many Jewish friends – all of whom are Reform or Conservative. It seems to me, that they are more inwardly observant. They are genuinely good people, accepting of everyone, and they value knowledge and understanding. They seek to change the world for the better.
I don’t believe I have a say in how observant my friends are – that is all up to them. 😉
It does concern me to some degree, the lack of observance or even knowledge about Judaism among secular Jews. I wouldn’t force someone to be more observant than they choose to be, but they should make more of an effort against assimilation into popular culture.
I’m a committed Reform Jew and as this was clearly a humorous articlar have not taken offence. I just want to point some things out:
1) Secular is the opposite of religious. Reform and Conservative Jews are religious, therefore they are not secular. Not very difficult to understand.
2) We’re obsessed with talitot because we don’t wear them very often.
3) The most beautiful women in the world that I know are rabbis, both physically and spiritually.
4) We don’t like orthodoxy and charedim because you don’t like us. There’s only enough insults people can put up with and we choose not to have anything to do with people who don’t like us. Apart from voting Republican we don’t have anything else against you.
5) We don’t like the settlements because they are Orthodox or strongly associated with Orthodox institutions like moetset yesha and the orthodox political parties. A lot of us have no problem with eretz yisrael hashlema, we just have problems with its representatives and so put our support elsewhere. I ain’t voting for someone who shouts abuse at me at every opportunity.
6) Apart from these things I thought the articlar was very accurate. The writer’s obviously a baal teshuvah (but I won’t dwell on your sinful past). We support social justice and tikkun olam because we believe in them. We have strong values that we stand by. We ain’t bending because you think you know what the Torah says better than us.
Ben
Uh, about the maple syrup thing…
according to OU, “If the maple syrup is 100% pure – with no additives, then there are considerable reasons to assume that it doesn’t need Kosher certification. At the same time some companies at one time used clarifiers that were not Kosher. It is our understanding that such clarifiers are no longer in use.
This is not the case with Passover, when maple syrup requires a reliable Kosher for Passover certification.”
I’m Canadian, so getting 100% pure maple syrup is eeeasy (check to see if there’s an ingredient list–if not, it’s good. Aunt Jemima’s is NOT maple syrup!), so I never buy one with a hechsher. (I don’t use maple syrup during Pesach).
Canadiangirl,
You can always make your own, the season starts as soon as daytime temps go above freezing and snow starts melting.
I made some a couple years ago, kind of fun, but make sure you boil it outdoors and keep an eye on it when it’s almost done, you wouldn’t want to burn it.
(deviating from like and hate a little)
don’t hate charedim as much as they hate us..
don’t understand why dressing like a 55th century Russian is considered appropriate Jewish attire.
think eruvin are a total fraud.
think dna tests should be required for kohanim.
55th century russian?! That sounds really cool. Get that space helmet on!
Umm, what’s a 55th Century Russian? I ask because I’m Russian and I’d love to know what the 55th Century version would be like and what is has to do with “appropriate” Jewish attire?
Right on re: dna for kohanim… or some sort of evidence other than declaring that you’re it.
ok does 19th century c.e. work better?
nope its still not accurate, have a look on wikipedia, for full history of chasidic garb, and besides not sure what your point is. Even most religious jews dont dress like that
“don’t hate charedim as much as they hate us”
yeah right
“don’t understand why dressing like a 55th century Russian is considered appropriate Jewish attire.”
Regardless of what century you meant, so dont dress like that most orthodox Jews don’t.
“think eruvin are a total fraud.”
So dont carry even where there is one
“think dna tests should be required for kohanim.”
Why do you care? are you so desperate for the first Aliya
Nice job; I thought “intermarriage”, scrolled down, and saw “assimilation.” You nailed it.
More SSJL:
Hava Nagila
The New York Times
Marc Chagall
Tashlich
Food at Shiva
Guss’ Pickles
Ratners
Neil Diamond
The Catskills
food at shiva, great one!!! growing up in brooklyn i had never seen “shiva platters available” signs until i moved to baltimore. I asked a deli-owner what was up with them he explained that theres a huge secular-jewish population in baltimore and they all look for shiva platters
I love Ratners – oh those onion rolls
I thought Ratner’s closed long ago.
Love this! And I love:
Hava Nagila
NY Times
Chagall –> LOVE him!
Food at Shiva –> not so much love it as definitely acknowledge that it is a popular practice in Brooklyn..
The Catskills –> can’t wait for the season to open
The Catskills went Orthodox in the late 70s
I don’t feel like posting this under my own name because it’s just too obvious. Secular is not the same as Reform. Secular is not the same as Conservative. Jews who keep kosher at home and go to synagogue of any kind are NOT SECULAR. If they go to Workmen’s Circle, OK. There is actually a movement for secular Judaism and several secular Jewish organizations. The Reform movement, the largest movement in the United States? IS NOT ONE OF THEM.
People who go to synagogue and pray and don’t do it in an Orthodox way? Are RELIGIOUS. They just aren’t Orthodox.
If it’s inaccurate, it’s not all that funny.
please learn to read: “The other problem with this post is that while many orthodox Jews consider conservative and reform Jews to be secular, they aren’t actually so – so I just kind of lumped everyone that isn’t orthodox together.”
Ah, so if you admit that it’s a problem with the post, that makes it…less of a problem with the post? It still undercuts the humor of your stereotyping.
I know that in Israel a lot of people think of Judaism as binary. You’re either da’ati or hiloni. But it really does not work that way even in Israel, though the current spate of haredi rihuk (well, what’s the opposite of kiruv?) might turn more Israelis less traditional. Though you know, Jews do continue to hang on to our traditions even in the face of the massive hypocrisy of those who name themselves the guardians of them.
Here in the US, almost no Jews self-identify as secular. “Not that religious” or “very Reform” (SIC!) is more like it. To self-identify as a secular Jew implies a very high level of Jewish knowledge, which most US Jews don’t have. But in order to know that you’d have to have a high level of Jewish knowledge.
Some of this is right on the money, as far as American Jews go. The interesting thing is that many Israelis who would call themselves “chiloni” (secular), still light candles Friday night and make kiddush. Then they might go and watch TV, or drive on Shabbat to the beach.
To me, that is still not totally secular, it is somewhat traditional.
Big mistake to lump secular Jews with movements like reform.
Secular Jews respect the religion / tradition, they just don’t want to commit to following it.
Reform has no respect for Judaism or the Torah, that’s why why they’ve switched the rules to suit gay chrismukka interfaith marriages, or re-schedule Yom kippur to a convenient Sunday where they can have a treif brunch before mussaf.
Also bad to lump the Reform and Conservative movements and leaders with the those who attend Reform and Conservative congregations.
Yochanan,
If they didn’t attend or pay into it, there wouldn’t be a movement…
They like “Shabbat Shalom” and look at you like you’re crazy if you say “Gut Shabbos.”
Artsy cantors that over-enunciate so it sounds like they’re in a fistfight with the Hebrew language while trying to sing opera.
They LOVE converts…they ask “How did you become interested in Judaism” while Orthodox ask “Why in the world would you WANT to be a Jew???”
Novelty kippot/telliesim.
Dislike punctuality…there is no “Jewish Walk of Shame”…in fact there’s rarely a minyan within half an hour of Shabbos services start time and most arrive right before or during Musaf to avoid sitting through the Parsha.
Some of us won’t say gut shabbos on principle as we see it as anti-Zionist to keep Yiddish going when Hebrew unites all Jews. Yiddish is purely European and separates different types of Jews.
Not to start an argument here, I do not know enough about Yiddish vs. Hebrew to argue, but here is a page out of my personal life.
My family had been in the country five minutes (exaggerating for emphasis 🙂 ) when my 80something grandmother was feeling ill. So, we called Hatzoloh. The Hatzoloh EMTs spoke English and my grandmother spoke Russian. Before the rest of us knew what’s going on, they found a way to communicate through Yiddish. The moment stayed in my head and I’d been wishing ever since that I knew more than a handful of words in Yiddish.
As it happens, I know even less in Hebrew… I would appreciate it if you would explain how Hebrew unites all Jews – in what sense? …just out of curiousity to learn.
Thanking you in advance.
Esther, you have a very valid question. I started to write you a long reply, and then realized it had turned into a post, which I am posting on my blog. I would be honored for you to read it: http://www.lady-light.blogspot.com
Wow, lots of haters responding to this one.
I thought it was hysterical, coming from a secular Jewish background.
We had THREE kosher-style delis near our home in Brooklyn when I was a kid:
George & Sid’s in Georgetown
Warren and Marty’s on Avenue L in Canarsie
Grabstein’s on Rockaway Parkway in Canarsie
All were extremely popular with the not-religious Jewish community as well as all my Italian friends.
Loved the knockwurst and beans as well as the Tongue Polanaise!
One of the things you left out is that secular Jews love secular eduction. Every upstanding member of the community must have at the minimum a college degree, although ideally a Masters or PHD.
These people will pay 20 grand for the nursery program they think will give their child an edge in admissions to Harvard fifteen years down the road. No wonder a third of Yale’s student body is Jewish.
Good one! And welcome to the Solomon Schechter world as well.
Actually Heshy, 2nd Ave Deli is kosher. Is is under the supervision of an orthodox rabbi, and although it is not “glatt” kosher and it is open on Saturdays, it is kosher.
I can’t believe you left out bacon.
Heshy is describing Jews with some kind of affiliation it seems, just outside of OJ. Very few of the ones in my CJ affiliated world would touch bacon.
Yeah, Ratner’s closed and the onion rolls were awesome as was the potato soup and the octogenerian waiters who served hot soup with trembling hands.
More:
Gefilte fish in a bottle
Maxwell House Haggadahs
Macaroons
Hadassah
Fiddler on the Roof
Borscht
The Lower East Side
The “Hora”
I think a lot of secular Jews are divided when it comes to Israel. While some of them may show their support for Israel by participating in Israeli Day Parades, others with protest with the Palestinian Arabs at the parade. Unfortunately a lot of those anti- Israel groups who promote Palestinian causes are ran by Jews.
I rated myself on the like/don’t like index- I found 17 of 43 (giving myself half credit for a few things I was ambivalent about), making myself about 40% secular. I look forward to seeing how I rate on the Modern Orthodox ones!
Interestingly, my ultrasecular mother (who only goes to synagogue on Yom Kippur, and that one Reform) would rate only slightly higher than me.
That’s because there are some things where the extremes united against the middle. For example, more-or-less observant C and R Jews like colorful yarmulkes, but my mom hates them because they are too conspicuously Jewish. (If you have to wear one in front of my mom, wear the cheap black ones at Reform synagogues – even the thicker satin ones are “too frum” for her!) Similarly, ultra-assimilated Jews like my mom are more right wing politically than C and R Jews, because they are more part of generic White America than part of Jewish America.
Just saw “Praying with Lior” a film about the bar mitzvah of a boy with Downs Syndrome at a Reconstructionist synagogue. At any rate, I couldn’t help noticing some of the things on your list that were pretty common there (lots of colorful yarmulkes, and the filmmaker set a lot of stuff to Klezmer- just to name a couple).
I am a secular Jew, but I could not care less about the enviroment, and I do not buy organic or healthy foods (I think organic food is a scam of money). I am also not a liberal, not a Democrat, and am not on the left-wing. Why am I like one of the exceptions?
We had a joint mock seder with a church on a Sunday morning and all their people showed up exquisitely dressed in nice suits and dresses while we shlumped in wearing outfits suitable for painting the house. Partly it was because we were busy getting ready for the real seders.
Your first six on dead on for ex-OJ gone atheist, CJ affiliated, kids go to Schechter me.
Including my name – TikunOlam 🙂 Except, I have quite a bit of RW on Israel left in me.
Wearing mezuzahs! There’s an old joke, an old man goes to visit his nonobservant grandson. He asks, “What’s that on your necklace?” The young man proudly says, “It’s my mezuzah! See, I’m proud to be Jewish!” The old man goes to the door and starts looking around the doorway. “What are you looking for, Pops?” “I’m looking for your tzitzis!”
chevramaidel: good one!
I agree with some of your statements, thank you.
I have absolutely nothing AT ALL against Conservative or Reformed Jews. WHile I am Orthodox, I would definitely doven in a Reformed or Conservative shul.
I would never demean the Torah or Hashem or Jews. The three go together as ONE.
As far as female rabbis is concerned, I never saw an ugly one. I also like very much what they have to say and I applaud and appreciate their interest in our People and Torah and Hashem.
Any Jew is my brother or sister. Got that?
i don’t give a hoot if they are atheist or Orthodox or gay or Reformed or not affiliated or agnostic or neo-anything or Conservative or Chasidic or whatever.
Every single one of them, no matter who, is my dear, holy brother or sister.
We have all emerged from a tormented, persecuted, raped, murdered, ridiculed and discriminated against, long line of hated generations and I therefore understand the many types we have come to be.
I love us all and every single one of us is precious to meand, I believe, is precious to God.
Abraham Stubenhaus: You sound like Reb Shlomo Carlebach, a”h. Actually, you sound wonderful! After what our people has gone through, we need each and every one of us, in achdut.
Haha, this article is right on! Other stuff I would include:
Going on Birthright
Feminism
Guitar sing-a-longs at Kabbalat shabbat
Being politically correct
Translations and transliterations
Jewish studies major
Using yiddish words in everyday conversations
Being friends with black people
Being friends with gay people
Public school
Telling people that they are “Jew- ish”
Wow, all muslims are terrorists. Nice one. Great to see how “enlightened” you orthodox folk are :/
Very rich secular jews, enjoy having their names on Yeshiva buildings.
Sheer madness and tragic. The entire premise of the site is founded in deeply inculcated errors and maladies.
Yahweh is all merciful is the only positive and hopeful wisdom to be gleened from the tragic pain I feel reading this site! One feels a soul shaking marrow felt shudder of horror and injury when reading over the confused and mixed up thoughts of the sites authors.
We hope that the author is engaged in an elaborate bit of humor and satire.
It WASN’T the most terrible event in modern times, you stupid fukker!!
Always with the shiksas. I’ve had goyishe men chasing me since I left Hebrew school. They think my being Jewish is exotic.
Besides, cute they may be, blondes don’t age very well, especially dumb ones. ;p