I have lived and stayed in enough Jewish communities to understand that many places don’t have a kosher restaurant simply because of community politics. Community politics can get in the way of many things, but restaurants are usually a huge point of contention and know that your community is not alone if it does have these issues.
The local kasharus agency isn’t good enough for everyone
There is a yeshiva in town that controls everything
There is a yeshiva in town that thinks it owns the place
The modern shul hates the frum shul
The lubavitchers wont eat there
The modern people all eat milchigs out anyway
It will create a hangout for boys and girls – we don’t want it
The Rav thinks the community is too poor to support it
The frummies wont eat there
The guy opening it isn’t frum and wont pay for the vaad
Someone threatens someone else if they open it
There is only one other and the Rav likes to practice monopolistic tactics
I am sure there are many more and they are all stupid, if you don’t want to daven in someone’s shul that’s one thing, but to prevent a whole community from enjoying a restaurant because you are on some power trip just plain old sucks.
The real ‘out of town’ restaurants are usually crap, anyway, because the community is too small to support it.
So you’re left with an understaffed restaurant, slow service with old food that charges exorbitant prices because the mashgiach needs to feed his family.
I don’t have theat problem, I hate restaurants and would be very happy if we didn’t have any here. I fell they are a useless waste of $$$, and also a breeding ground for food poisoning, kashrus violations and community politics.
Only time I’ll pay to eat in a restaurant is if I’m travelling and have nowhere else to eat. Still, I prefer to pick up a 6 pack and a bag of chips or cookies.
another problem with out of town restaurants is that people are so used to eating at home that its not as much of a necessity to eat out. there arent alot of singles going on dates out of town either. sometimes out of town restaurants have awful hours so you cant even go there when you want to.
One other problem.I restaurant owner only hires mashgiachs that “work”.I won’t begin to explain what that means but I’m sure you can figure that out.That with that fact that men have egos,jewish mwn have bigger egos, jewish frum men have bigger egos, jewish married men with 13 kids have even bigger egos.And when restaurant owner talks to mashgiach like a teenage kid at a summer job(i.e.”make yourself look busy and clean the windows or sweep the floor”)hell breaks loose
anon,
I don’t blame the owner. How would anyone feel paying some guy a full time salary to sit around and twiddle his thumbs? He needs to define the mashgiachs work duties before hiring him. If the guy’s ego is too big or the work is beneath his dignity, he should find someone else.
Knowing a bit about how restaurants and mashgichim work, I can say that while I appreciate the owners reluctance to pay someone to sit around, turning the mashgiach into another employee is begging for kashrus trouble. A far better option is to have the owners pay the Vaad, and then to have the mashgichim on the Vaad’s payroll.
Once again I am with Phil on this. I once took a trip and packed , brought everything I consumed.
LisaNoor, that’s easy to do on a quick trip but for those of us who travel for 4-5 days or more for work, subsisting on beer and potato chips isn’t an option.
By the way Heshy I just noticed your location is Toronto. You must stop at Marky’s and eat their kishka. It’s awesome.
Phil
I usually agree with you but on this one a beg to differ(actually I don’t have to beg,I just differ).Common sense dictates that if the mashgiach is just another one of his “employees”,the mashgiach will won’t have the guts to tell the owner when he is wrong about a kashrut matter,because he is an employee and he is afraid of loosing his job.The only way he can function as an OBJECTIVE KASHRUT WATCHDOG is if he has the liberty to tell the boss off on any matter regarding kashrut.We can argue in theory day and night, but until you’ve actually be in that situation(which I have) you will never completely understand.
This happens a lot with “shomer shabbos employees”(aka “working”masgiachs).As a matter of fact most of the time these guys are so busy working they won’t even recognize a kashrut screw-up.It’s better if they twiddle their thumbs the whole day, but if they notice a kashrut error they come down like a ton of bricks on the owner.It’s kinda like managment, as long as everything is on cruise control they twiddle thier thumbs, but as soon as something needs correction it gets corrected fast.
Phil
I don’t blame you for being nieve.But if you knew what kinda scumbags these owners really are,and how they take advantage of every little loophole given to them(i.e.working mashgiachs like slaves) you would agree with me.When a mashgiach is an a work=money=life=not starving-to -death situation, it’s a whole different perspective, and the owner will screw you over.
I don’t understand the traveling thing. Usually when I go to a conference, I ask for access to a freezer and a microwave that I can have exclusively for the whole week. I haven’t been turned down yet. If you don’t have that, but you can at least get access to a refrigerator, bring a filet knife, buy whole fish, and make sashimi.
If it’s all politics and power, then screw the local authority. If you really believe the restaurant is making its best effort at keeping kosher patronize it anyway. In the end it’s not about the rabbi. It’s between you and G-d.
“Still, I prefer to pick up a 6 pack and a bag of chips or cookies.”
Phil,
That would be a “convenience-store diet”.
Anon,
I guess it can go both ways. Kind of reminds me of that scene in Scarface where Tony tells the burger stand guy to wash his own dishes.
Yochanan,
I siurvived on the convenience store diet more than once, especially when in areas with no kosher groceries or restaurants.
even if the mashgiach is payed by the rabbinical council he knows that if he reports a kashrus violation that causes the retaraunt to close down or to continue without a hashgacha – he’s out of a job.
a. nuran- that could only go for someone who doesn’t realize that the rabbi knows more halacha than him
a
Yak, not if the rabbi is making his decisions out of greed, politics or general pissiness. When he does that it doesn’t matter how much he might know. He’s not basing his decisions on that knowledge, so it’s completely irrelevant.
In Denver we just have one kosher grocery/deli. They are a monopoly. They treat people poorly, over price their food and nothing happens because it’s the only place in the region to get Kosher food.
anonymous.
I know what place your talkin about.Remember, there is no such thing as a monopoly in America.Anyone has the right to go into competition with him a steal a slice of the pie.Even Though they do treat people not so nice, they do have superior quality products and the store is very commercially presentable.I would look at this as a business opportunity, if you think you could out best him in customer service and price(his 2 big problems) and have the same superior products and display,go for it.I bet you would be able to steal at least %30-40 of his customer base.
I know someone who wanted to start a little dairy place in an out of the way tiny Jewish community in Queens. The Vaad told her she would have to have a full time masgiach and they wanted the pay accordingly. If they knew her and knew she keeps kosher and Shabbos, I bet they would have gone for a part time mashgiach.
Michal, I think you missed the entire point. The Vaad doesn’t give a damn about the observance level of the restauranteur, they run a protection racket that forces small business owners to pay the piper or get out of the business.