The Westhapton Eruv video got me thinking about loopholes with Judaism, I have written a comic piece about possible shomer negiah loopholes such as using a stick or wrapping yourselves in latex before engaging in some hard core premarital hand holding. But this post is different, because all of the following loopholes actually exist within Judaism.
Heicha Kedusha: Normally the amidah (shemona esrei for you frummies) is said twice, once silently and once out loud. Ever so often (especially in small towns) the minyan is a bit late and the rabbi clops the bimah and says “Heicha Kedusha” at which point the chazzan davens out loud until kedusha and then everyone continues quietly. This has got to be one of my favorite events in shul, it saves so much time – I was once at a superbowl party in Dallas and they did this because they needed to say mincha before the game was to start.
Ending Bentching at al yichasreinu: My old man says he picked it up in Chaim Berlin, my rosh yeshiva in Rochester also does it and many folks I know end bentching at al yichasreinu instead of saying those long lists of harachamuns.
Making up fast days: I always thought that the point of fast days was to commemorate someone or God trying to kill us on a specific day, but I’m down with making up fast days for all those times I have been eating lunch and looking at my facebook home page only to see everyone talking about how hungry they are.
Eruv: Although Eruv has got to be one of the dumbest loopholes in Judaism – we Jews can’t seem to live without the string, it makes or breaks communities and saves a lot of folks a lot of money from hiring illegal immigrants to push their children to shul. I never understood how work can go to non-work just from placing a few strings connecting power lines and getting the city council to sign off on it, but I’m not sure I want to question the madness much.
Pilegesh: Let’s say you’re having trouble with the whole niddah thing, two weeks without sex is a bit much, so why not hire a concubine to fulfill your desires and maybe she’ll even let you do her with the lights on.
Pruzbol: If only we could force the Judeo-Christian US government to adopt the policy of pruzbol, we would all be debt free every 50 years or so. That’s right folks, every Yovel you get released of your debts – though I’m sure the shylock creditors being the hook nosed bastards they are must have coerced the Rabbis to make a loophole in their favor. Wait is pruzbol even a loophole? It sounds like halacha to me.
Eruv Tavshilin: Preparing on shabbos for a holiday that comes out right after shabbos is not allowed unless you make some sort of meal or set aside two loaves or matzos before shabbos to be eaten after shabbos. It never made sense to me, but not having to say nisht shabbos geredt constantly while you prepare for yuntiff is worthwhile.
Breaking sefira for work: So you’re not supposed to shave, but it’s cool if you have a job that doesn’t allow you to practice your religion openly.
Kol Isha Loopholes: Kol Isha is assur, but according to many modern orthodox (Read: not really frum, but think they are) authorities you can listen to women singing if it’s not live, you do not know what they look like, or it’s in duet form. I’m down with kol isha and I promise that of all the meals I have been to at which women were singing, I never once lost control of my inhibitions, though I have heard some sexy Tzur Mishelo’s in my day.
Sheitles: According to the Rabbis it’s a biblical commandment (yes I’m being facetious you morons) for women to cover their hair, based on the sotah case where a woman’s hair is uncovered if her husband accuses her of doing the mailman or water drawer (not based on the fact that almost every women during that period of time did so) this is done to publicly embarrass her and the Rabbis tell us that the hair is ervah (if this is so, why is showing two fingers of hair ok, while showing two fingers of other more interesting lady areas is assur) So while the married woman’s hair is assur, shaving her head and using that hair as a wig to cover the shaved head would be perfectly ok for some reason – although I think that may be akin to cannibalism in the frum world right? Instead the frum sheitle wearers buy hot non-Jewish ladies hair and make it into hair coverings which look way better than their ervah hair.
Post netilas yedayim communication: Just because you can’t talk between washing for hamotzi and eating bread, doesn’t mean we cannot communicate with grunts, hand motions and obnoxious sounding Yiddish words said out of clenched mouths that remind me of constipation – UHH and NU are not counted as words and therefore allowed.
Dividing the fast after dropping the torah: If there’s one event I want to be at in orthodoxy, it’s a crowded shul where a Torah drops and where everyone divides up the fast, so we all have to wait the equivalent of 2 hours – because I sure as hell aint doing no Ramadan by myself. I have only heard from one person I know who witnessed the Torah drop, in fact he was at a Reform shul where the ladies laining were too busy tweeting their progress and the Torah rolled off the bimah – I’m sure the Rabbi came up with a loophole for that one.
Potatoes on Pesach:They should have been banned, but prior to out chumra loving and rampant banning post war rabbis we had folks with brains on their heads who decided that banning potatoes was just too much – shame they couldn’t do the same with the internet.
Recorded Music during sefira: It gets debated every year, but since recorded music wasn’t mentioned in the gemara it’s cool. Some folks say it’s not part of our mesorah and they didn’t have recorded music at sinai (Can you imagine the sound guys checking the thunder and smoke machines?) many people argue that recorded music isn’t really counted as music.
Acapella during sefira: If there are no instruments it isn’t really music, especially if the music is so bad it’s torturous to listen to it anyway.
Selling your chometz to a goy: I really want to know if any of the folks who bought chometz ever walked into the house and took out all the booze, no one can confirm that this has actually happened and in my mind the chometz sale is such a scam it makes me smile. I guess it’s good for the restaurant I work at, or else I wouldn’t have a job after pesach.
Fast of the first born: It’s erev pesach and you have to fast if you happen to be a first born – I am – so you wake your sorry ass up at an ungodly hour to attend a siyum and eat really crappy pesach cake made out of potato starch.
Siyum for Meat: You cannot eat meat during the 9 days unless a restaurant hires someone to make a siyum every night and this is precisely what those Jews in Brooklyn do.
Bowing for Modim by lifting your butt a couple of inches off your chair.
Ditto for when the rabbi enters the room.
Not really a loophole, just a lazy ass kind of thing to do.
Hesh,
I would expect a bit more research.
1. As it related to al yichasreinu this is only a shabbos issues, as some (specifically the Vilna Gaon) felt that the harachaman’s were bakashot (requests/entreaties) which were not permissible on shabbos (similar to why we don’t say the 13 midddle brachot of shmone esrei on shabbos).
2. Pruzbul is the concept created by Hillel to allow debts to carry over a shemita (7 year) cycle not yovel (50 years). Basically, all loans are cancelled every shemitta, but what ended up happening is that people stopped lending to each other (especially closer to a shemitta year). Hillel created a method by which loans that were still outstanding at a shemitta year could be sold to beit din (jewish court) and beit din (who were not subject to the shemitta cancellation of loans) could collect.
If you dont know something just ask its ok to be ignorant about your religion it isnt ok to be too embarased to ask and just take the easy way out and mock when you have absoultly no clue as to what you are talking about.
You seem to have the most trouble with eruv so I will gladly help you out. Carrying in a Reshus harabim is forbiden deoriasa. Aneiruv wont help you get around that much a it wont helpget around any other biblical prohibition. This point isnt disputed. As to what qualifies as a reshus harabim, THAT point is under dispute, lets say for argument’s sake that ocean parkway in Brooklyn is a reshus harabim. That means that biblicly it is absolutly forbidden to carry on Ocean parkway on Shabbos. Now this would lead to a very strange situation as just North and just south of Ocean parkway it is permisable to carry, yet to carry to your friend who you see carrying on the other side would be forbidden. So to avoid any posible vilation of a biblical prohbition the Rabanan forbid any carrying in a public area even if it doesnt meet the strict criteria of a reshus harabim (they also forbid carrying in a reshus hayachid that isnt enclosed for the same reaon) Again the idea being to prevent an inadvertant transgression of a biblical prohibition.
However, to make THEIR OWN decree easier they allowed carrying in these semi-public domains a long as an eruv is errected. This isnt strange at all, ince a. it is their own gezeira they can not apply it in any situation that they want and more importantly b. The wholepurpose of their gezeira is still accomplished, as people are very aware of the extent of the eruv (at least should be), there are announcments such as “the eruv is up” making people mindful of the fact that they can only carry within the eruv, thus avoiding any possible biblical transgression (again in areas where there is no eruv, a an eruv doesnt help where it is biblicaly forbidden to carry), which is the whole point of the Rabbinicrestriction on carrying in these semi-public domain in the foirst place. It is not a loop hole at all.
I’d be happy to explain some your otherpoints of confussion as well, dont be shy or youll never learn
I’m not shy, it was late and I just banged out a pretty good post – I knew I would some shit wrong, but see – it made for a nice discussion regardless of the fact I am at the butt end of it – we all learned something today and I get the brownie points for getting all of the rebels in the crowd to learn some Torah.
Lol! Yeah solid post.
Potatoes? A tiny exception to a crazy chumra seems a bit out of place here when there’s so many good loopholes. I’d never heard of the siyum for meat–that’s awesome!
Heter iska?
Seems some comments fail to understand the concept of “loophole,” namely, something that is technically allowed. If you can’t appreciate how eruv (or pruzbul) is a “loophole,” this post is going right over your head.
You may be right, maybe I am missing something (though eruv isnt a good example, if you actually understand the rules involved as I pointed out eruv serves the exact same function as the prohibition that it circumvents, ie both serve to prevent carrying in a reshus harabim, ill give you pruzbol though)
I have a question for you that may help me grasp this post better. Suppose I am your boss and i tell you please buy me an umbrella but only if the forecast calls for rain. You dont buy an umbrella since the forcast didnt call for rain, did you take advantage of a loophole ?
Well, as Heshy no doubt knows, anytime you’re explaining why something is funny, you’ve lost.
It looks to me like you’re approaching halacha as a binary thing: permissible and impermissible. Nothing wrong with that. But to many people, it’s also amusing how some halacha just sounds like you can “get away” with something that isn’t in keeping with the spirit of the core, especially when the halacha is a rabbinic innovation like eruv (as opposed to something like parah adumah, which you can’t pin on chazal).
I hope that helps, but I fear that if you see nothing silly whatsoever about an eruv chatzerot using fishing line on lightposts, this post just may not be your kind of humor…
FWIW, I think you have a point when you suggest that people do not always understand the nuances of eruv, and sure, I do think eruv seems even sillier if you don’t understand it fully.
A loophole in the umbrella example is if the forecast does not call for rain, but it happens to be raining.
Technically allowed, but missing the point.
Got it, thanks a lot! I think I finaly get the concept behind this post AS Geoff said I approach “halacha as a binary thing: permissible and impermissible” which is the case, “spirit of the law” is by and large some hoakie stuff made up by those who practice feel-good-judaism, and at any rate is inherently completly subjective. (The ironic thing is these same people who decry what they percieve as loopholes that they dont feel are in the spirit of the law, will often mock others for practicing unneceassary chumros that may not be required by the letter of the law)however many people have trouble seeing it as such. Your reply really helped clear it up for me, to take the umbrella example a step further, if the boss knew what the forecast would call for, knew what the weather would be and still phrased his request that way. I can see both cases being made.
however this is really beside my original point, that eruv (if understood) is not a loophole at all (ie it does not allow something that was previously not allowed), though i do see how it appears to be one to the uniformed
Heter Iska is even more BS when the local kashrus agency gives it to one store and not the other – it creates a lot of bad blood in the name of keeping kosher.
I want to get one of those Eruv hats that reporter in the Daily Show clip is wearing.
John: while there may be sound halachic reasons behind an eruv and these other things, what strikes me is how in one case we have these rabbinic creations to make what was prohibited permissible, but there seem to be so many obvious things that are still prohibited that should be permissible. For example, why do we still have yom tov shaini (2nd day of yom tov outside of Israel)? Yeah, yeah, I know the technical reasons, but if kind of defies logic when you see that things that the torah prohibits are ok (pruzbol), but things the torah never even mentioned (2nd day of yom tov) are still not permitted.
One explanation is that pruzbul is assuming that shmita was d’rabannan at the time, similar to an eruv, which can only be applied in a carmelis.
http://www.jlaw.com/Articles/pruzbul2.html
Shabbos clocks, Shabbos elevators, Shabbos lights. (The last one is suddenly not muktzah?)
Actually Shabbos lamps are muktza. The bases are muktza, but the shade is not as it is a separate item (you can pull it off as it is using the lamp as a base). It even says that on their website.
Sad thing about the pilegesh is that if she lives in your house she and your wife’s cycles will probably entrain. That means they’ll both be niddah at the same time. And both PMSing at the same time.
Sometimes loopholes are their own punishment.
Thats why I kicked my wife into the hut in the backyard as soon as i picked up the sweet new pilegesh.
Nuran,
Pilagshim have been forbidden for longer than multiple wives, only the kings were allowed to have them.
In cases were people had multiple wives, they had to provide each wife with their own home, so the chances are that all the wives were niddah at the same time.
Nuran,
I meant weren’t.
I know, just indulging in a little “You want? OK, but you’re not going to like.”
Shades of “Demon! Make me a milkshake.”
ZAP! “You’re a milkshake.”
Funny, several of the guys mentioned as having pilegeshot in tanakh weren’t kings, or in any position of power whatsoever. Just check out shoftim for a fun story involving one of those.
Synapse,
The takana came later on. Not sure why.
About the selling chometz, someone told me that R Heineman in Baltimore specifically tells the goy that buys the chometz to go into a few of whichever houses he wants and check out the chometz to see if he wants some.
I don’t know if it’s true, but it sounds like a few other stories I’ve heard about him. He sounds like a cool Rabbi.
Nobody dances to prog. People dance to the Jewish a capella albums. Guess who’s actually violating the halacha?
You got eruv tavshilin backwards- you CAN’T prepare on Shabbat for a Yom Tov that comes afterwards no matter what you do- this is one reason that Yom Kipur is never on Sunday, so your Seudah Mafseket to prepare for the fast won’t be done on shabbat. The Eruv Tavshilin is to prepare on Yom Tov for the Shabbat that comes afterwards. So “Nisht Shabbat Geredt” is not solved by the eruv tavshilin.
How about the counting people by saying “not 1, not 2, not 3, …”?
Or the lashon hara loophole that it isn’t lashon hara so long as you’re saying it about a goy?
what about the loophole of avoiding carrying on shabbos by carrying stuff you will need on habbos before shabbos?
Like setting aside rocks to throw at cars driven by Jews violating shabbos and driving through your neighborhood
Another great example, cant eat cheeseburger? no problem just eat a regular burger, what a great loophole! Or better yet, stick in some pareve cheese
actually, the northeastern jewish communities in queens, hillcrest, JE, holliswood etc, sell the chometz to the city councilman jim gennaro and he and a rav from a shul once went into a guys house during pesach tool a bottle of scotch and left. the reason for this was b/c the guy laughed while selling his chometz and said its all b/s. needless to say when the rabbi and councilman walked in the guy was actually laughing and got a great kick out of it. there was even a small write up abt it in the NY times. ill try to find it
A point many people dont realize is that the chametz is being sold for its full value (a determined by 3 experts) Thus the goy has every right to enter the premises and take his chametz including “all the booze,” Like any sale though it is not free and would cost whatever the value of the cahmetz is.
As has been mentioned ever year this topic come up the sale is a real sale both halachicly and legallay it doent matter what the participants think.
So can I sell all of my unwanted purim crap and keep the money, or is it one of those BS sales that I have to return after the holiday?
I dont get your question you can sell all your crap to whomever you want for how much you want, as long a you both agree on the sale. Nobody has to return anything.
If I’ve completed a real sale when I sell through my rabbi, why can’t I call the rabbi just as the holiday ends and say “I changed my mind, I don’t want to buy all this crap back. Just give me the money”?
How did those 3 experts determine the value of the chametz without entering my house and looking?
I’ve always enjoyed picturing God coming into someone’s house and saying “Ooooh, you have chametz everywhere! You’re SO cut off from your people! Oh, wait, you sold it? It’s not really yours…well, nevermind, as you were.”
Good questions, dont be afraid to ask thats how you learn.
Usually the chametz is sold for a period of 8 days or so (i dont know how each and every rabbi does it, but the few ive obsereved have doen it this way) thus there is no chance for you to change your mind.
As to your second question, that only arises in the rare occurance of the goy arriving to sample HIS chometz. Then and only then, if you were to demand him to pay for what he took, it would be evaluted by a panel of 3 experts.
How about the loophole that if you don’t want to make a bracha on food you just move you lips and make mumbling sounds instead? The same loophole goes for benching, davening or saying good shabbos to you fellow jew on the street.
some other loopholes:
– the whole blood on the underwear thing, depending on what color it is
– a heter to take birth control pills
– shaving in general – the torah says only don’t cut your beard and it is assumed it means only a razer isn’t allowed, but if you use an electric shaver there is no problem
– smoking, even the torah says don’t do anything to harm yourself people who are otherwise very observant still do it
– the groom being “koneh” his new wife at the wedding by accepting a pen from her father (at least that is how it was explained to me when I got married)
and lastly…
– stealing (including cheating on taxes, fraud, etc). it’s probably stealing from a goy, so it may not really be stealing. However if someone in a car asks them directions on shabbos they’ll say “I don’t know” and won’t tell them directions because that person “might” be jewish and they don’t want to have another jew do melacha because of them, but they don’t have to worry about that when it comes to stealing from people that they might be jewish.
Wow every comment of your is full of ignorance, alow me to help
– There is no such loophole a mumbling intead f a bracha or davening. Saying good habbos on the other hand while certainly nice isnt required so mumble all you want if you are not in the mood of having manners
– Not any blood makes a woman a nida, and more importanly their are all sorts of nastiness that isnt blood at all
– once the mitzva wa performed, what the isur in birth control? beforehand i more pobleamtic but it avoiding an aseh that the woman isnt even commanded in.
– The torah ays dont shave does that mean you cant brush your teeth? No and neither does it mean that you cant shave your beard in a manner that isnt “hashchasa”
– meat is harmful, alchol i harmful, while i certainly dont smoke it is a stretch to say the torah forbids something that MAY cause harm in the ditant future.
– A for the groom being koneh, wow! what on earth are you talking about. Etither the guy wh explained it to you made it up on the fly, (more likely) you completly misunderstood, was he talking about being mekabel the tenaim?
Stealing from goyim is forbidden, this is in shulcahn aruch and isnt disputed.
John, you really hit a nerve with this one–“it’s a stretch to say the torah forbids something that MAY cause harm in the ditant [sic] future.” This is EXACTLY the kind of thing that drives me up a wall! First of all, how many laws are there in Judaism that are based on trying to prevent something that “may” happen? Lots- like muksa (don’t touch a car on shabbos becuase that may lead you to drive it), negiah (don’t touch a woman because she may be a nidah or it may lead to sex), don’t ride a bike or a horse on shabbos (because you may brake a branch or the bike may brake and you’ll want to fix it). I can go on. But when it comes to healthy eating and living (something that we have only become aware of in the past 50 years or so), all of these so called frum types start with the “well, it is speculative, it may cause harm ,we are not sure, anyway, it’s not an immediate harm…). It’s this kind of double-standard that is not only intellectually dishonest but shows that the observance of these folks is tied to some 18th century Eastern European concept of Judaism, not the Judaism of the torah. You want to be machmir, be machmir about your health. There is certainly more basis in the torah for that than there is for many of these later-day chumras that seem to dominate frum practice today.
Reb Noyach,
Absolutely true. Worse things is, that many rabbis are aware of this and do absolutely nothing to change it.
Here are a couple blatant examples:
1) Fish and meat are prohibited for being served together, we even have a fish fork and meat fork. Reason stated is because it may be hazardous. Yet smoking is still permissible.
2) When it comes to Yom Tov, melachot are forbidden. The expections to this rule are using heat and carrying, which are allowed only when they are done for one’s physical benefit. Using hot water to wash dishes of have a shower are forbbide, yet again, smoking is permitted, to the point where shuls leave a candle for smokers.
calm down let me help. first of all just a minor point, there is no issur to touch muktza rather their is an isur to move muktza. You hit the nail on the head with “you want to be machmir, be machmir about your health” I agree smoking is very bad and should be avoided. However that is all it would be a chumra, if I dont want to be machmir there is (unfortunatly?, and arguably) no issur to smoke. On the other hand,Their is an issur miktza, in fact their is a whole tractate devoted to it. Geziros uch as the ones you listed arent added (for the most part) since the time of chazal.
Mahla, good point thank you I uppoe that counts a a loophole however mot of the other stuff mentioned in the post in general and this comment in particular arent loopholes at all but rather basic ignorance a to what basic halacha is
John: You say there is no issur to smoke. Why is that? Not because logic dictates it or that there is no torah source for it. It’s because it was cause all the frum smokers to have a fit. Plain and simple. I just don’t get it why people who don’t smoke because they believe it is against halacha and who are careful about their health and what they eat because they believe the torah requires that, that these people are not considered “frum” because of those actions. Only keeping chumras like negiah and glatt kosher are considered to be “frum.”
Reb Noyach, halacha isnt always built on logic that is just feel-good judaism that they teach in aish. If it works for you, great by all means, add all the chumros you want that make sense to you, ignore all those that dont, and as long as you follow basic halacha as lain down in shulchan aruch, youre golden (though I wonder how you explain the logic of waving a palm frond and citron in the air, among many others, but if you can great).
You ak why is there no issur to smoke? Honestly I dont know if I were writing the Torah I would certainly include one. However its not there, and pinning it on “venishmartem” is a bit of a stretch since as I mentioned “it’s a stretch to say the torah forbids something that MAY cause harm in the distant [typo fixed this time, I hope it didnt cause you too much trouble] future” under that issur.
Dont worry I consider you frum, I even adress you with the frummy title “reb”
About the underwear, though, John — I think he was talking about the whole wearing black underwear thing.
John,
Every time you try to rebut a point by saying that it is sound halacha, not a loophole, you prove Heshy’s point even more. I believe Heshy’s point was that the torah says , but the people who made the halacha come up with loopholes to allow what a layman would have otherwise thought was not permitted because the torah said . By trying to rebut everyones posts by saying that they are ignorant in halacha and that all these things are permitted by halacha, you are further proving Heshy’s point that these are indeed loopholes that are built into halacha.
Sure, people may argue whether something is a loophole or when the laws were made it was made intentionally to allow these things. The frummie approach is that when g-d wrote the torah he picked every single word and letter and sound appropriately so we (i.e. our rabbis) can learn into it exactly what was forbidden and exactly what is allowed. So if g-d wrote in the torah that you can’t destroy your beard, he wrote it in a way purposely to indicate to us that a razer isn’t allowed but an electric shaver is allowed. However other people see it instead as creating loopholes to circumvent what would otherwise be forbidden.
Anyways, thanx for helping to prove Heshy’s point that all these loopholes are indeed built into halacha and are sound halacha.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loophole
And if you check out wikipedia, it even says “A loophole in a law often contravenes the intent of the law without technically breaking it.”. I couldn’t have said it better myself (I guess that’s why we have wikipedia).
Question: is carrying something i need on shabbos before shabbos, taking advantage of a loophole? why not, God says dont carry on shabbos Im getting around it by carrying what I need on shabbos a day early. How is that loophole different than the ones you gave.
Note: you only adressed one exmple mot of the example you gave and mot that Heshy gave for example eruv which i addressed extensivly earlier is not a loophole by any stretch of the imagination, asuming you understand the basic premise involved, ie it does not allow you to do anything that was previously forbidden. In other words I get what Heshy’s point was however many of his examples and most of yours stem from ignorance.
No, carrying something before shabbos is obviously not a loophole because the whole commandment specifically not to carry on shabbos. However, if you put up fishing strings around the neighborhood then you are allowed to carry on shabbos – that sounds like a loophole.
In your example you are doing something different from what is forbidden. In the eruv example, you are doing exactly what is otherwise forbidden, but the idea is that putting up a fishing string now makes that exact same action permissible.
It’s very simple to understand and the more you throw these bad counterpoints out there the more you make Heshy’s point.
You are confused, according t the definition of loophole you provided, eruv isnt a loophole at all. “A loophole in a law often contravenes the intent of the law without technically breaking it” Eruv does not do that at all, in fact quite the opposite is true Eruv serves the exact same function of the law namely both eruv and not carrying in an area without an eruv that is only prohibited rabinbicly serve to prevent carrying in a bibilicly prohibited area. Youre understanding of eruv is backwards, that is my point all along. the more you throw counterpoints the more you prove that i was right, and you dont understnad the basic premise behind eruv.
You say “No, carrying something before shabbos is obviously not a loophole because the whole commandment specifically not to carry on shabbos. However, if you put up fishing strings around the neighborhood then you are allowed to carry on shabbos – that sounds like a loophole.” And I agree, that does sound like a loophole, however as ive tried to explain before, that is not what an eruv does at all, it does not change any bibilcal commandment what was forbidden remains forbidden.
Some of the examples provided are debatable, for example shaving, to me “hashchsa” was forbidden not any removal of the beard, shaving in a non-hashchsa manner is like carrying on friday it ws never ever forbidden, the torah is exact in its language. However i do see how you can argue that point. however eruv is not comparable at all, The same Rabbis who prohibit carrying in certain areas, allow carrying in THOSE SAME AREAS (not biblicly prohibited areas) with an eruv, that does not fit the definition of loophole you provided.
“that is not what an eruv does at all, it does not change any bibilcal commandment what was forbidden remains forbidden”
What was forbidden by takana is allowed. Because there’s some fishing line on the utility pole. Sure, maybe it was only forbidden in the first place with the idea of then turning around and allowing it, who cares (in the context of this post, not “who cares” halachically).
The same people who made the takana dont apply it when their is an eruv. The eruv serves the same exact purpose as the takana, both prevent transgressing a biblical commandments. The eruv isnt a loophole added later to circumvent the takana. It fullfils the takana intent of the takana completly. Those who made the issur to carry dont apply the issur they themselves created when their is an eruv.
I’m pretty sure what I said agrees with you on both the facts and the intent 100%.
Anyhow, have a good shabbos, and I hope your eruv is up!
Im ubber-frum, no loopholes for me, I demand full walls as per Rambam. (seriously though, my community doesnt have an eruv— yet should be done any week though theyve been saying that for a few years)
Good shabbos to you as well
John,
Rambam forbids Eruv in public places (nothing to do with 600,000 people) and over streets more than 16 ammot wide.
Unless you live on a communal farm or bungalow colony, your Eruv would be invalid if you followed his ruling.
Phil, i was kidding. Though Rambam doesnt forbid an eruv, he just forbids relying on a tzuras hapesach and demands full fledged walls
John,
Rambam doesn’t forbid an Eruv, he only forbids it in public places where people travel. He even forbids it in the desert, as deserts where used by travelers in his time.
Birth control is a Mitzva D’oraisa, when it is needed. Is it better to beat your kids or space them?
Also, I never heard of this Pilegesh heter. I know that there are guys who have gone off the Derech who do it (but keep wearing their payos, beats me).
Rabbeinu Gershom banned the concept of Pilegesh over 1000 years ago. That’s probably why you haven’t heard of it. Every once in a while someone talks about bringing it back, but it never ends up happening.
Shame on you Heshy! You forgot the classical “nisht shabbos geret” to allow discussing all your business deals during leining on Shabbos morning!
LMTO!!! you get funnier every day
my favorite loophole is not wearing gloves when eating bread so i dont have to say netilat yedaim………good to do when there’s no water nearby 😀
my favorite loophole is wearing gloves when eating bread so i dont have to say netilat yedaim………good to do when there’s no water nearby 😀
Another loophole: Doing Chalitzah instead of marrying your brother’s widow.
hey great post…you should make the opposite ones with some of the harsher humras such as the orthodox community basically only accepting glatt kosher meat etc.
RE: Post netilas yedayim communication – it’s actually not forbidden to talk, rather a “best practice” (I think the Shulchan Aruch / Mishna Brura uses the word “Tov” – it’s best [not to talk]).
You missed the biggest loophole of them all: heter iska. Nearly everyone – haredi, MO, or otherwise – has a bank account and a mortgage with interest either collected or paid, and guess what: it’s a total issur d’oreita!
Uh, “Heicha Kedusha” is standard practice in the Spanish-Portuguese community. It’s not a loophole. It’s simply the way things are done since we don’t hold be whatever made people start repeating it in the first place.
I actually known a person who sold their chametz only to find out after the pesach that the purchaser drank all of the booze.
You’re all OCD insane with all this muksa BS.