One of the things I like most about folks who are off the derech is seeing the differences between their views and how they label themselves depending on their backgrounds. As the unofficial frum community sociologist, I like tp study the differences between off the derech folks because not all are created equal, I always figured that once you went off – you dissociated yourself from your former community and while in some instances this is very true because of parents or friends dis-ownership of you – I have noticed that everyone is different in how they view Judaism and their former communities.
Chabad: Possibly the most fascinating off the derech folks are chabad, because no matter how far from religion they stray, there is really no such thing as a former chabadnick. It’s almost like “once you’re chabad you’re in for life” and I always meet chabad folks who drive on shabbos, don’t believe the Rebbe’s moshiach and eat pork – but still identify as chabad. Chabad itself is more open minded in general and chabad kids go off the derech in droves, some of which is a result of baal teshuva parents and some which may be a result of the interactions with regular folks when they try to convince folks to shake the lulav on their way to work- one of these days I may approach the subject of why folks go off the derech, because there are many valid and good reasons to leave the path for a life of 3 day weekends and barbeque pulled pork sandwiches.
Modern Orthodox: I remember in yeshiva they used to say that since modern orthodox folks were already somewhat off the derech, they didn’t have that far to fall. I have noticed that this kind of holds true in the sense that they don’t show much bitterness towards the community and many off the derech modern orthodox folks have left the community and don’t even consider themselves off the derech – the terminology tends to be reserved for people from the more frummer communities.
Yeshivish: The yeshivish community is interesting, because you will find that there is an effort to bring these people “back” and there is also this extreme fear of kids going off the derech and influencing others – so they love to send their kids to Israel. Yeshivish off the derech kids tend to fluctuate between the community and I have noticed that they never really fall out of the community. They tend to hang around other members of the yeshivish community who went off and never truly abandon their communities. You seem them at shul, hanging at the pizza store and getting jobs within the community.
Chassidish: Yes I am lumping all of you non-chabadnicks together, because although there are huge differences, I have noticed that you all have these off the derech communities of Yiddish speaking folks trying to navigate your way through the harsh English speaking educated world. Not all off the derech chassidim are created equal, I am sure some are accepted by their families, but for the most part I have been privy to gut wrenching stories of heart break, solitude and broken marriages – it’s not an easy thing to do, to leave a close knit community of people bound by strict practice and this could be a good reason for the off the derech chassidic community to be based on this feature.
Baal Teshuva’s: It’s not talked about much, but I was once talking to David Kelsey of Heeb and he told me that the most feared off the derech people are the baal teshuvas – because they are usually educated, have bee privy to the secrets of the community and are usually willing to speak out – just look at Shmarya Rosenberg – the frum communities most hated commentator. Off the derech BT’s are interesting, because they all have stories of how they fell prey to their local kiruv rabbi and at some point were extremely turned off – usually by the racism or some sort of ignorance displayed by someone they respected.
Search for off the derech information on 4torah.com
OTD BT’s are no different than any people who’ve been in a cult and come to their senses. How is an OTD BT any different than a former Moonie?
On the other hand, an OTD BT is proof that the community’s disdain for BTs is warranted – since they could never be trusted to be “really” frum, it’s no surprise that they went off.
(Very often this is a vicious circle – BTs are treated with disdain, which causes them to go OTD, and then everyone points at them as emblematic of why BTs can’t be trusted).
as a former bt, i couldn’t agree with you more.
Well I’m not a BT, so I dont know how other FFBs treat you all, but I don’t look down on you as not really frum. I look down on you because you have to have a screw loose to join up in the first place. I mean, come on, we can agree on that, can’t we? One human being to another, you’re pretty much out of your fuckin mind.
i totally agree with this. whenever i meet a new BT, always wonder why he/she joined, and wonder how long it will last.
you just made me reassess myself here.
secular > bt > otd ….
hmmm…..
uh oh.
yes. you’re definitely right. wtf was i thinking???????????
“…there are many valid and good reasons to leave the path for a life of 3 day weekends and barbeque pulled pork sandwiches.”
WTF?!?!?!?
You want to play amateur sociologist, you want to understand the tortured souls who leave Judaism – great.
but “valid and good reasons” ? REALLY? If that’s an attempt at humor, it falls short.
Nobody leaves because they calmly researched all of the arguments for/against Judaism, and came to an academic conclusion that Judaism is wrong.
OTD is always due to some kind of trauma. Physical / emotional abuse, molestation, rape, or severe physical / emotional neglect.
The more that we are able to identify the offenders and stop them before they traumatize our Jewish children, the fewer OTD we will have in the future.
If you disagree, find one OTD Jew who can prove otherwise.
Me
And me! And many of my friends.
Ane me!
You couldn’t be more off the mark if you intentionally tried to be. Leaving orthodoxy is not ALWAYS due to some kind of trauma. Perhaps you need to educate yourself somewhat before making such absolute statements.
Or read more of this blog
No, with me it was all about the Bacon Cheeseburgers, Shrimp Cocktails, and non-mevushal wine. It was also about being able to actually go out to bars on Friday night. The non-Jewish tail was pretty secondary (sorry to throw Jewish Pedophile a bone here, but guiltless non-Jewish tail did solidify a lot of it).
Trauma you say? More like the feeling that frumkeit just wasn’t working for me and I just needed to spread my wings.
Think about what y0u gave up to become non frum, as far as family, friends, and community.
Was that really worth it for going to bars friday night and non jewish tail?
yes.
my parents actually are rather congenial about it (they just want me to be happy). it makes family gatherings a bit awkward. but they only come once every–oooh, weddings? funerals? occasional yumtif family dinner?
so I can be happy the rest of the time? yes, totally worth it.
Not everyone gives up familyt and friends when they go off the derech – I know it may sound shocking, but some frum folks including myself – actually accept the choices of others regardless of whether or not we agree with them.
bwahahahahaaa…..
physical abuse: nope
emotional abuse: nope
molestation: nope
rape: nope
severe physical neglect: nope
emotional neglect: nope
inability to check my brain at the misogynistic door: yep
inability to live with not providing a solid education for my children: yep
inability to deal with hypocrisy: yep
but will, you were SOOOOO close. 😉
“OTD is always due to some kind of trauma. Physical / emotional abuse, molestation, rape, or severe physical / emotional neglect.”
nope, nope, nope nope nope AND nope. 🙂 My parents were giant douchebags about me going OTD, but that only came after, not before, and I wouldn’t count it as emotional abuse.
I just honestly think it’s a bunch of BS.
AE. I agree there are plenty of other reasons to go OTD, but according to your own posts about going OTD, you suffered a lot of trauma and emotional abuse/neglect.
The only difference between an OTD and a BT is which community you were dissatisfied with.
What do you do when you’ve been both?
add me to that list
Me too. After committing a few aveiros and not being struck down by lightning, I began to wonder if there really was an old man in the sky who cares whether I wait 6 hours between meat and milk (notwithstanding the dutch Jews who only wait one hour). Watch the first minute and 15 seconds of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o for George Carlin’s excellent take.
And me.
If you expect me to give up all my Saturdays (that’s 1/7th of my LIFE, not to mention Yom Tovim), you have to bring more to the argument than, “your great great great grandfather was at Sanai and heard G-d speak to him. No I can’t prove it – just trust me”. To me, the most compelling aspect of frumkeit is the close-knit community, but in the end, it’s not enough to make up for the TREMENDOUS weight of the restrictions – I need absolute proof of the truth of Torah if I’m going to make such a HUGE commitment. Besides, I wasn’t willing to become a racist in the process of becoming a talmud chachum.
Why do you put lubavitcher separately from chussidishe?
Because for 200 years it has been different, acknowledged by both sides of the coin including the intellectuals within chabad
In the words of the Karlin-Stoliner Rebbe, when someone in my Yeshiva asked what’s the difference between his sect, Lubavitch, Breslov, Viznitz, et al, “Lubavitchers don’t wear Streimels!” That’s all he said on the subject.
Side note: I should also add that I was the one who broke the ice with that Q&A session by asking why Chassidim wear Streimels. His answer there was a simple shrug and “Nu, if you want to wear a Streimel, you wear a Streimel; if you don’t want to wear a Streimel, you don’t wear one!” Of course, as he later pointed out, Lubavitchers just don’t wear them at all.
Only in America. Married Israeli chabad men wear streimels.
Interesting. This was the Karlin-Stoliner Rebbe from Me’ah She’arim, so if there really are married Lubob men in shtreimels, how could he have missed that?
Only married men from old Yerushalmi Chabad families, wear shtreimlach and fewer and fewer still do that even among that group of maybe 200 families.
I knew one. A Yonah Mendelsohn from the Old City. Funny guy, kinda looks like Yogurt from Spaceballs. This man is old enough to have fought in the 1948 Independence War (has pictures and everything). This man was a very hardcore old-school Chabadnik. He has letters from The Rebbe where the Rebbe refers to him as “Sar HaMashkim” (he was a vintner by trade).
This man was real Chabad happy. On the note of what I said above about Karlin-Stolin, he had a good one about them. For those of you unfamiliar, Karlin-Stolin likes to SHOUT davening on top of their lungs. Mendelsohn called them “petzatzot” (bombs). But Chabad, he said, are the “tzanchanim” (paratroopers), jumping into the midst of battle and rescuing people.
Biggest mistake I made: asking him what he thinks of Meshichism. Oh boy, he gave me a tongue lashing. He started screaming at me “SHTUYOT!” and rattling off about how much he hates them. His English was not very good, so I called his wife over (fluent in English) and asked her to explain to him that I apologize, I don’t believe in it either, I was just curious. So then he started shouting at her! Obviously, it was a very sensitive point for him. I didn’t offend him that much as I was still always welcome at his house, but I never brought it up again.
But back to my original point, I don’t remember him wearing a Shtreimel, just a black hat. And he’s as Old School Yerushalmi Chabad as they come.
i really don’t see how the other chasidic sects represent what the baal shem tov taught, they seem to be more about chumras and BS… at least chabad comes near what he taught.
you know what my problem is with the hardcore yeshivish and chassidim? they have no ethics. they perform the mitzvot but there are no ethics behind them. it’s all about putting fences around the fences to protect the mitzvot but there isn’t any morality behind it. the way many of them treat themselves, molestation, throwing molotov cocktails on people’s porches, fingerpointing the likes of which you’ve never seen… it makes me cringe when some folks on here say that moshe would have been a chossid if he was alive today.
OTD Chasidic can mean a lot of things, because in the hardcore Chasidic community they often consider people who stop being Chasidic but still stay frum as OTD.
Chabad is chassidic…
but not chassidishe…
It’s called FFB-OTD-WB (Welcomed Back). Try everything – – – and I mean EVERYTHING – – – that is assur, and then come back. Get it all out of your system before you intermarry, raise a church-going (or mosque-going) family, and get cremated. It’s better to eat a few cheeseburgers while having beeya on Yom Kippur now than to go otd permanently.
Re: raising a church/mosque going family-
I “intermarried” (not really) someone with the exact same religion as myself- an atheist. The vast majority of OTDers do NOT join another religion, I’d say most are atheist, agnostic, or “believes in some kind of god but not religious.” groups. I’ve only ever encountered one OTDer who actually joined another religion, and they have now left that religion too.
I did. I was raised chasidish; became agnostic; became christian; became a christian church leader; left christianity; became open orthodox and am still open orthodox.
JR
Ha! Come to Westchester, NY! The (White) churches have lots of born Jewish members. I know some myself! Most would rather belong to a church because they view Judaism as “dead”, “empty”, lacking in spirituality, “robotic”, “rote”, “vain repetitions”, etc. As a convert I can tell you that a major problem is that in Orthodox circles, the mentality is too much in a bubble. People mostly know about their immediate surroundings, and little else. That includes knowing about other Jewish circles that they haven’t personally been involved with. It is all the more true when it comes to dealing with “the outside” world. Ther prevailing attitude of simply not caring about what is going on “out there” leads to many pitfalls like not being able to properly defend against missionaries to start off with. Everyone is so busy smugly walking around with phony expertise and street (read kiddush club) knowledge that they wouldn’t recognize the shul falling around them if the bricks hit them on the head.
We’ve got to wake up, pay attention, ask questions and stop jumping to conclusions all the time.
was is it about FFBs thinking that all non-Jews are either Muslims or Christians? I think most Jewish intermarriages in America are with agnostics, atheists, or apathetic Christians.
this weekend I got together with an OTD group- it was me (Former MO), a former chabadnick and 2 former chassidic people. 🙂 We had tons in common with each other.
oh and you may be the unofficial jewish sociologist, but since I have a PhD in sociology and I’m a community organizer for OTDers, I’m going to go ahead and name myself the official OTD sociologist. 🙂
Read “Children of the Mind” by Orson Scott Card, one of the books in the Enders series, for his explanation of OTD.
Does anyone know what was in those pipes that the Baal Shem Tov and R’ Nachman smoked?
Original chasidish take on chumras: the besht took upon himself never to light his pipe from a chailev candle. R’ Nachman, his great-grandson, absent-mindedly lit up, but later couldn’t remember if he’d used a chailev candle. This gave him great anxiety, but he ultimately decided to purposely light up with a Chailev candle. He figured that once a chumra gives a person too much anxiety and gets in the way of “ivdu es hashem bsimcha”, it no longer serves it’s purpose and should be disposed of. Even though it was his family’s minhag.
Chasidish-born people who are still frum but not chasidish aren’t OTD, they just want to chill out a little bit and do their own thing.
If you’ve ever read any of those pamphlets they hand out, the answer is quite clear. Stuff is just wacky.
Next time I’m at Atlantic-pacific I’ll pick one up and not use my carefully mapped missionary-free route through the place.
I have read the Chabad Meshichist pamphlets though, how does that rank on the Crazy Scale in relation to the R’Nachman stuff?
PS: are you ever coming to NYC with “my” hats?
Haha yes they are worth checking out as long as you realize they are insane. Some mask it better than others.
Never read them, but knowing the belief prob similar level but different style.
P.S. Yes, I’m normally in much more often, I’ve just been out of state recently.
i believe that yaffa eliach’s research pointed to hash….
Once I look up the exact quote, I’ll ask some respected adult why this minhag was forgotten instead of some others 😉
Thanks for helping the cause 🙂
I really like this blog and really like most of the commenters, but lately it’s just been grating on me and I had to say something.
Why is it that anytime anyone defends being frum so many people come and attack them? It’s never just one person disagreeing either. It’s always significant vitriol from many many people simply for the crime of defending Orthodox Judaism.
Yes, some people who defend it do so in disgusting, bigoted (and simply untrue) ways, but it just seems so mean spirited (Especially ironic being that one of the main complaints of people about the frum is that we are so closed minded and mean). I hate having to hide my views because I don’t feel like being the target of such anger. Rant over.
(applause)
Really glad I’m not alone here. Was getting worried for a while.
+1
Thanks!
While I have never been OTD and therefore cannot talk as one, there was a period starting in seminary that I was almost completely OTD in my head. While I never spoke about it or acted on it I was so unhappy in my community and with the unanswered questions I felt ashamed to ask. I truly believed that although I would always appear the perfect frum wife and mother I would never have any true belief or love for our religion. I selfishly went into marriage and motherhood still with this mind-set, never telling my husband or friends, always trying to appear the most conscientious, the best cook, the pretty, quiet, heimish wife and mother I imagined I had to be. But I was mirerable.
It took -B”H the best, most understanding husband in the whole world to listen, support and be my personal kiruv Rabbi. It was a long road for me to re-establish my love of Judaism, my love of learning and my ability to ask open, honest questions. Oh, and moving out of a certain very insular community helped a ton! I did grow up in a very frum, not so warm feeling community, but my family has found a wonderful new home in a community of 90% BT’s who have been nothing but warm, open-minded, passionate, and understanding to me and my family. They take loshon hora seriously, they care for each other no matter how religious, they are not snobby or self-righteous, they take learning seriously and they love and look after each other. This community keeps me on the derech everyday. I’m not so nieve as to think this is what every OTDer needs, but I wish everyone could feel so accepted and part of a community no matter what there affiliation or level of Torah obervance. I never ate pork or drove to a movie on Shabbos, but I consider myself a BT that happened to be born into a religious family. Thanks for letting me share!
“As the unofficial frum community sociologist, I like tp study”
We know you like TP. You devoted a post to it recently and discuss it often.
Chabad… I think it’s because they seem to have a lot of pedophilia. All the former Chabads I’ve met, at least. Also, I guess you are meeting the same ones I’ve met because they most certainly have not been forthcoming that they were raised Loobie. It usually comes up in conversation after I know them.
And most of the guys that the OTD club my friend is in do speak Yiddish but some were Chareidi Yeshivish. My friend was raised in a Brisker family-Yiddish only, Hebrew was sinful or whatever. Even English is preferable.
A few responders have CLAIMED that they left observance without any physical / emotional abuse or neglect.
None of them have PROVED it.
Now, realistically, it would be very difficult to prove that in this forum.
I’m not even suggesting that those who responded (think that they) are lying.
They don’t WANT to admit that their family / friends / teachers / any of the above let them down. They don’t want to feel like they were pushed out of Judaism because they weren’t having their emotional needs met.
Once they were forced to run to another group to get what they should have been able to get from their own group – they want to think that they left on their own.
Yet, if you speak with psychologists who deal with OTD people, they all say that they never see kids from warm, loving homes, with no trauma in school, who leave the observant Jewish community.
So go ahead, post a reply, call me names – maybe if you write in all caps and exclamation points, you can shout-out your inner voice which is telling you the truth.
I want to make this very clear – I do not blame OTD people for leaving. They are victims. We should all feel ashamed that we, as a community, were unable to give them what every human being needs – physical safety, emotional safety, and a sense of belonging.
“We should all feel ashamed that we, as a community, were unable to give them what every human being needs – physical safety, emotional safety, and a sense of belonging.”
I’ll second that! I would say that is especially true for the OTD BTs…
“Yet, if you speak with psychologists who deal with OTD people…” – let me guess, these psychologists you’re talking to are frum. And your version of a highly repected publication is Mishpacha Magazine.
I didn’t quote anything from any publication, please don’t put words in my name.
Yes, the psychologists who deal with OTD are often frum, because they understand the frum world, and what the person leaving is experiencing.
Are you accusing these professionals of lying, solely based on their religion? Do you assume that every frum person is a liar and/or a cheat, because some frum person lied or cheated you?
how would you like me to prove these answers to you?
physical abuse: nope
emotional abuse: nope
molestation: nope
rape: nope
severe physical neglect: nope
emotional neglect: nope
inability to check my brain at the misogynistic door: yep
inability to live with not providing a solid education for my children: yep
inability to deal with hypocrisy: yep
would you like to check my body for signs of physical/sexual abuse? or check my synapses while you expose me to different stimuli?
i can prove that the education in the community is severely lacking and very far behind state standards of both quality and care. i can prove that most of the people i had to deal with proved themselves hypocrites. and i can prove that i personally did not want to check my brain at the door.
so, will, please allow us to know the proof that you require.
If I was really so traumatized, why do I regularly go to Jewish social functions? Though I do not daven, I don’t feel uncomfortable at all going into a shul if invited. When confronted by childhood friends, teachers, etc., I smile, say hello, make conversation, and usually they respond in kind. And even my Chareidi relatives–the kind who I have very open idealogical difference with–I will go to their simchas, and everything is good.
I am still in touch with my Chareidi uncle from Israel who I used to have a chevruta with every Sunday. He regularly responds to my status updates as well. Now I’m sure he’s noticed from reading them that I no longer subscribe to his views, but we have not had any fall outs with each other. In fact, he’s made it clear that if I’m ever in Israel, his house is open to me. This, my friend, is Jewish hospitality. If I was truly traumatized, don’t you think I wouldn’t be able to admit that?
So you see here, I am a bit of a walking paradox. I am a shtark Atheist here whose pretty much made his mind up to never become frum again. Judaism to me is completely sociocultural (cf. Mordecai Kaplan). Yet for a person who is so far removed from Yiddishkeit, I still don’t harbor any anger to Jews. Not my family. Not my teachers. Not even the teachers I hated (come on, you’re not going to tell me you never had a teacher you hated now…). As the saying goes, “don’t hate the playa,, hate the game!”
The burden of proof is on you now, O person who doesn’t know me IRL. PROVE TO ME THAT I AM SUFFERING SOME KIND OF TRAUMA!
lol. i think the real proof is that we read heshy’s blog!!!
Heshy,
I am technically OTD Chabad. OK, so I attend YI on shab morning (where I live, there isn’t much else) and keep kosher at home, but from the Chabad perspective, that makes me even worse than a goy since I experienced the absolute truth as they define it, even got a dollar from Rabbi Schneerson on numerous occasions, and still decided that it wasn’t for me.
First off, I do not identify in the least bit with Chabad.
Second, Chabad is not at all “open-minded”. They will try to accomodate non-affiliated Jews, especially if they smell money, but the intolerance amongst themselves is beyond belief. I was ostracized for the “crime” of going to college.
I’m a BT thats OTD not such a big deal…
There is a Torah and it really does have a pretty good outline of how to live life.
Some people overdo it and their kids get pissed and rebel.
I rebelled too, but instead of being immature and trying to “show everyone” that I’m rebelling while at the same time hurting myself, I simply took out the parts I thought were silly, wrong or unnecessary according to the Torah and I continued living.
Kosher is a great thing. Not being involved with girls at 16 is a great thing. Shabboss is the most amazing time in the world. Following the Torah is awesome.
G’d damn all yours.
H’S damn you.
And your families and friends, to the fourth generation.
Damn pests.
Amém.
people can be culturally and ethnically jewish without being religious. The religion is only one (small, for many) aspect of judaism
I was once very religious. Now, I am an atheist, but I still love Judaism. Judaism taught me to worship loving-kindness, compassion, empathy, and understanding. It taught me to see the good in all people, and in all things. It taught me to always say to myself, “And this too is for the best.” Judaism taught me that deed is main thing. Judaism taught me that nothing happens by chance, that there is a reason for everything. Judaism taught me to all judge others with infinite kindness because we will all be judged by the same exact measure we judge others. Judaism taught me to open my home to all strangers. Judaism taught me to treat the lowest human on the street like he could be eliyahu hanavi in disguise. Judaism taught me to be kind to animals, and to love and care for all sentient beings. Judaism taught me to be vegetarian. Judaism taught me to feed my animals before I feed myself. It taught me to help the fallen, the widow, the sick. the orphan, the aged, the poor, and the needy. Judaism taught me not to want a human king. Judaism taught me to help the persecuted, to pursue justice and fight for justice. Judaism taught me the universe is unified. The Talmud taught me how to reason, it taught me how to resolve paradoxes. It taught me opposite positions can both be true. Judaism taught me that the world looks different when you look at from a higher plane. You can not see the hidden symmetry of the universe from any place at the bottom of a wine bottle, only from the top of the wine bottle can you see symmetry. Judaism taught me when darkness is transformed into light, the light produced is infinitely greater than ordinary light. Judaism taught me the universe started from a singularity that transcends the laws of physics. Judaism taught me the importance of living in a community where people truly care for each other, help each other, and support each other. Judaism taught me that what is your is yours, and what is mine is yours. It taught me that when I give money to a poor person, he is doing more for me than I am doing for him. Judaism taught me to have compassion for people who are mentally ill, who suffer from alcoholism and other diseases. It taught me to love the stranger, because we were once strangers in a strange land. Judaism taught me to to treat others how I would want to be treated if I were in their place with their strengths and weaknesses. Judaism taught me not to worship gold and silver. Judaism taught me to care for the weak and the downtrodden. Judaism taught me not to waste resources, to be energy efficient, to conserve the enviroment, and be a good steward of the Earth. Judaism taught me to be a good shephard you should love the animals you care for enough, when you see on that is weak, you carry it on your back. Judaism taught me that none of us made ourselves, that whatever success we have in life we should be thankful for because we didn’t earn any of it. Judaism taught me to love peace, to flee from strife, to value your friendships more than money. Judaism taught me not to care for material things, that the more you own, the more worries you have. Judaism taught me to do good for its own sake, to help others in secret, to help the poor earn a living for themselves, to know that nothing you accomplish is your own personal achievement. Judaism taught me to be grateful for everything. Judaism taught me to first try to go over a hurdle, not under. Judaism taught me to treat everyone with decency. Judaims taught me the importance of gartitious, uncondtional love. Everything I know to be true I learned from Judaism.
Frumsters pay more attention to the laws between them and their creator, than between them and their fellow man. Which is very sad, because it is a lot easier to get forgiveness from Heaven than it is to get forgiveness from your fellow man. Heaven does not forgive transgressions against your fellow man without their forgiveness.
Judaism taught me that Jews are living in galus because the Great Sanhedrin remained silent when a man by the name of bar Kamtza was murdered in front of them. The Talmud teaches that embarrassment is equivalent to murder, and a teacher who stands by in silence, and does nothing is more guilty than the person who actually commits the act. A good argument can be made that the embarrassment he endured did kill bar Kamtza before he left the feast. The Talmud makes it clear that the Great Sanhedrin had ample opportunity to step-in. Bar Kamtza’s senah was not gratuitous. It was the hate of Kamtza that was gratutious, and the silence of the Great Sanhedrin.
Judaism taught me that Jews are living in galus because they put ritual zealousness above human life. Rabbi Yochanan said: “Because of the scrupulousness of Rabbi Zechariah ben Avkulas our House has been destroyed, our Temple burnt, and we ourselves exiled from our land.” Judaism taught me that Jews are living in galus because of zealots, because Jews fought each other, and engaged in self-destructive acts.
Judaism taught me that Jews will not bring our redemption through righteousness, but only through loving kindness. Because no man can withstand Heaven’s judgment, but every child can elicit his father’s love by performing acts of loving-kindness.
Do you have to be coarse and grub? Just because you are no longer a religious Jew does not mean you have to become a foul-mouthed, low-class animal. You don’t have to be religious to epitomize kindness, to sound educated, to have a little class, to have a little derech aretz. Why be a low-life?