I have wondered if people would rather be without a partner or settle for one that is less than perfect (I know perfection is impossible, but settling for something just because you are at wits end is something entirely different) The frum community revolves around family and marriage and this puts older singles at a weird place. They can never fully be part of the community until they can bitch to their friends about the high cost and low quality of yeshiva tuition, tell their mikvah lady stories and debate whether or not to partake in the latest wife swap meet.
The frum community has always had older singles, but never before has it been popular to talk about it. I grew up with my single dad and all of his single friends, essentially I have seen the shidduch crisis for years, but back in the day I was young and I wondered how these strange men would ever find their mates. I still wonder how some friends of mine, including myself will ever find someone to marry, I wonder if my friends or I would ever settle for someone who wasn’t ideal, but we could see ourselves trying to eke out a life for ourselves.
I am sure that people settle, I know people who settled (most of them quickly realized their mistake and are divorced now) These people met a girl or a guy, liked them enough to marry, but knew in their hearts that it wasn’t supposed to be. These people were scared of letting someone whom they “could” grow close to go. They were scared of being in the shidduch crisis any longer and they feared that they would never be able to complain about the high cost of kosher meat to their friends at the kiddush club.
I met three fairly frum girls at the Homowack Hotel (it is a real hotel that no longer exists) who told me that they had made a pact to lose their virginities if they were still single by age 35, I wish I knew who they were, but I have long forgotten their names – I was a young lad at the time – I should have stayed in touch. I wonder if there are others who make similar pacts, like, the next decent guy that comes along I will marry.
Would you ever settle?
I would never have settled and didn’t. No one should ever settle. It is a huge mistake and will only bring misery. Better to stay alone, cause then at least only one person will be miserable and not a whole family.
i have required settle in israil, there for i need marrige for you
LOL, good luck with that!
if only there was not such pressure to get married at a young age and the religious community allowed dating to happen naturally without the consistant marriage talk and the associated pressures, many more people would not have the settle and would find someone who is really for them.
i don’t think so, secular society has exactly the same crisis, all these lonely sex & the city characters. the solution is to marry a stranger, or your cousin, aged 12.
“i don’t think so, secular society has exactly the same crisis, all these lonely sex & the city characters.”
Nope. The the same at all.
First, secular and non-Orthodox folks don’t start worrying about this until they’re in their mid-30’s, so the proportion of their life that it’s an obsession is a lot shorter. And most of the obsession is on the part of women who are worrying about their biological clocks.
Besides all of the hassles that I can recall about being a single secular are nothing compared to the stuff I read here and in the other frum blogs. Basically, I had no problem attracting women, all they wanted to know about my background was if I had a decent job and was self supporting, other than that it was strictly my personality and looks that determined whether they were attracted to me. And I had pretty much the same standards about the women I dated. All I wanted to know was that they weren’t flakes, and the rest of the stuff I could find out on my own.
I would have settled but am so glad I Didn’t have to.
I married the same girl i met when i was in high school (96-00) and all I gotta say is damn im glad we broke those dumb rules our schools had about the opposite sex. I learned so much about her and how women are by the time i got married there were zero doubts about it and it had nothing to do with society and all their BS. I feel sorry for people who force themselves into marriages for status quo its dumb and very counterproductive
There is a great book out now called “Marry Him, the case for settling for Mr.Good enough” by Lori Gottlieb. She explains that in the real world, once women hit a certain age they’re really in for a rough time simple getting a decent date. The “good guys” go quick and it’s hard for a single girl to accept that she has to settle for divorced with kids, drug quitters, and other non preferred categories. It’s a real eye opener and a great read. Somtimes the only way to realize the truth is hitting that age. So she basically is telling you to settle for good enough, because at a certain age you’ll really wish you had rather than pride yourself that you stayed alone.
There is a difference between settling and being realistic. Many folks don’t get this… Not every guy is a frum, loving to learn, super rich Brad Pitt, and not every girl is a modest supermodel who will work, raise the kids, and love you even if you are poor and lazy.. People need to ditch fantasy land when they are looking for a serious relationship.
“whether or not to partake in the latest wife swap meet.”
You kill me Hesh.
eh heh
What ever happened to faith in Hashem? Remember Hannah’s prayer was answered ! I though marriage was supposed to be about love and partnership in devotion to Hashem and the Path of Mussar! Correct me if I’m wrong. Be careful who you label “less preferred categories”–you may find yourself there and realize that was your intended path–and your life is truly blessed!
If people really had faith in hashem you wouldn’t hear them calling it a shidduch crisis
Maybe it should be Shiddukh Challenge?
Catherine,
This “path of mussar” which you speak of is a relatively new concept. The Mussar Movement was introduced in 19th century Eastern Europe. I agree with you that to some degree people need faith in Hashem, this links back to bitachon v. hishtadlut in Hashem but devotion to the path of mussar??!! That is a hashkafik choice and nothing more.
You should be careful as to what the kiruv organisations/ certain parts of orthodoxy portray as ‘genuine’ Torah and what is essentially a movement created by people or scholars. It is careless research and misunderstanding which leads to historical revisionism.
Prayers are answered. Sometimes the answer is “No.”
If that happens you just have to do it yourself.
“Prayers are answered. Sometimes the answer is ‘No.'” That’s a really good point, A. Nuran!
Sad but true. There is a saying in Russian that, roughly translated, states “Have hope in G-d, but depend on yourself”
A Muslim friend told me a good story about Mohammed. I’ve heard similar ones about pretty much every religious leader.
One of Mohammed’s friends had let a camel wander off. He went to his Prophet and complained “You told me to trust in God. Look what happened!”
Mohammed answered “Trust in God. But first, tie up your camel.”
Precisely.
Actually I settled, and I’m glad I did because I have a bunch of beautiful kids to show for it.
Is it the best marriage in the world? Absolutely not. Is it workable? Yes. Is it better than having spent the last 7 years alone? Absolutely. Could I imagine life without my wife at this point? No.
Yes it’s better to settle than to stay alone.
Also, I have never met anyone who didn’t settle in some way or another. I think the question is more about how much to settle, than if you should settle.
Exactly. Settle for what?
If you are so desperate to get married that you’ll accept someone who will make you miserable and destroy your life you haven’t settled. You’ve taken leave of your sanity.
Let’s hope your wife does not see this!
His wife is probably reading it totally unaware her husband is Anonymous and thinking to herself “I really identify with what Anonymous is saying here.” ;^)
I have my reasons to believe that most singles in their late 20’s and older choose to remain single. I heard what each single has to say about his/her dilemma. Yes the dating market is competitive and we have to endure the communal pressure that centers around marriage and having babies. But I think its unrealistic for a bachelor in his 50’s to request for a woman in her earliest fertility peak years. Likewise its childish for older single woman to demand a full time learner version of Brad Pitt. I also feel their upbringing has some influence on their attitudes where they were told not to settle for anything less than the best. There are confirmed bachelors and leatherettes who are already tied the knot with their careers. I think the community should educate our children to make responsible choices in what they should look for in a spouse rather than rushing them to the chuppah at 18 to preclude the exacerbation of the single crisis. And no, most 18 year olds are not mature enough to get hitched even if they live in a community that promotes such a concept. Mind you that there are older singles who are allegedly more settled who are just as childish. I try setting up a friend who claims to be open minded and down to earth with a guy I know. As soon as she heard he wear jeans and doesn’t wear a hat, she nixed the suggestion. I tried setting him up with another person who was on the left side of the field. When she found out that he wanted to explore Judaism a little more, she lost her interest. I know of a girl who is 5″5 who refuses to go out with a guy who is shorter than 6 feet tall. I personally know of man in his 60’s who lost his desire and hope of ever marrying. My father’s single friends want women my age. Some won’t consider women older than 35 and these men are in their late 50’s.If these people think that no one will ever be perfect for them then they are probably right. If you have that attitude, perhaps you are just better off being a perennial single. I know I sound harsh but no one else besides you has the power to change your perceptions. You can blame parental interference on your low dating prospects since no Jap will ever be good enough for Mamma’s little boy or no clod will ever meet the approval of Daddy’s little princess. Yes its good to have a second pair of eyes and outside opinions but at the end of the day, you should be the only one to determine who is right for you. No one is forcing you to terminate a suggestion that might be suitable for you anymore than they are pressuring you to marry someone who is not right for you. If you are seriously looking to settle down and all methods you have tried proved nothing to be an exercise of futility, then maybe it would be advisable to adapt an attitude change. Try lowering your priorities and expanding your criteria. A little can go a long way.
If all fails, then maybe enlist in the next upcoming season of the Bachelor or Bachelorette 🙂
There is nothing like being surrounded by 25 hot guys/girls and only one to choose from as your spouse. Heck, it has worked for some people. SYS and Frumster may be up for a competition.
You will set yourself up for failure when you set your expectations very high. Take a long hard look at yourself. I knew 2 guys who weighed over 300 lbs and did not have a great face even if he lost weight. They would not settle for anything less than a frum ” 10 “. They are over 50 and very lonely. I blame parents for telling their barely average offspring that they are better than those around them. I don’t see it as settling, but rather a reality check. Like people marry like people. Meiskeits marry meiskeits and money marries money. It’s all mazel or lack of it.
Having said that, go out and look for your basherts. Pretty unintelligent girls please take your place in the front of the line. Funny, intelligent guys who have no money with no chance of making a decent living, have a seat in the back of the line. Happy Shabbos Nachamu!
If you do not fit the Ia categories cited by comment 12, you are just left on the wayside.
I accepted my fate. I am 42 and single, do not belong to the “preferential category”. At least I have a good job I like, friends with kids I can play with, and enough friends who complain about their marriage so as not to feel I have to envy them.
I just hope you don’t get too desperate and play with your friends kids Kolko style…hahahaha
Out of line Hesh…even for you!
Anyone who talks about Michael Jackson in a positive light is out of line, or about “the good things” any of these molesters have done.. But yet you will hear about the busted rabbis in a less than negative light in many frum circles… that is truly out of line.
But what about the friends wives? 🙂
On the flip side, I have single friends and, when my husband and I have had a particularly harsh fight (yes, it happens alot more often than I’d ever admit any place but here 🙂 ), they tell me: “And I should get married for this? What do I need this for?” The grass is always greener on the other side…
To all those looking for a mate, best of luck. To all those who’ve found a mate and feel they’ve settled, remember, marriage is a serious step and a serious commitment and requires a hell of alot more work than (in my humble opinion) anyone realizes. Nobody is perfect, that’s true. What’s important is that your mate’s imperfections be a good complement to yours.
you should marry the person you fall in love with, not the person who passes your check-list. nobody is “perfect” and nobody falls in love with a check-list. i would compromise anything for the man i love, but i wouldn’t compromise love. 🙂
if you mean settle in the sense of “settle for someone you are not in love with” then I think no, absolutely not. Marriage is hard enough with someone you really love, it’s the love part that can get you through the crazy times- I can’t imagine how I would have gotten through some really stressful situations I’ve been through with my husband (long term unemployment, money issues, major family drama, major illnesses among 2 close family members, etc) if I had “settled” for him and didn’t love him.
OTOH if you are talking in terms of settling for someone who is less than “ideal” according to some preexisting list of conditions you have, then absolutely yes. No one is going to be ideally everything, you always have to compromise on something.
But we will grow to love our spouses…said in sarcastic old woman shadchan voice,
I’m going to play devil’s advocate, based on personal experience.
I don’t know what other people mean when they say “in love,” but I have felt intense emotional and physical longing for several women in my life, with some associated despondency when things didn’t work out. I did not feel this way for my wife, who I regard as pretty, and with whom I am capable of engaging in prolonged conversations, lasting hours, about all of the various different things we find mutually interesting. We’ve been married for 7 years and we’re doing fine. Was the ideal to be infatuated with her when we met? Yes. But it takes maturity to realize that life is not always like the storybooks.
People can decide whether or not this constitutes settling. I suppose it depends on how high your standards are. A man who always assumed that his wife would be a perfect “10” in the looks department, and always of a sweet disposition, may feel that he is settling for a “7” with depressive tendencies.
Falling in love is an ideal, but it is hardly a sole criteria for getting married, and some people don’t easily feel this way, particularly when a lifetime commitment is in consideration. Additionally, in my experience, the feeling of being “in love,” tends to be elicited by people who are more attractive than average, and generally appealing to be around. People who are homely, or even average in the looks and charm department are at a disadvantage.
I look at some of the women around me, and I find it very difficult to believe that all of their husbands/boyfriends/etc. are “madly” in love with them. If they ever felt this way, those feelings were surely fleeting, once familiarity set in.
I understand not having a shadchan hoodwink you into marrying someone you find unattractive/unappealing/have serious concerns about their character. But if the raw elements are there: common values, attraction (not necessarily to the level of infatuation), and good character, it may be a mistake to let that one get a way.
What it will come down to is how invested you are in the movie “ideal.” If you demand that you have this feeling of falling in love, than hopefully your capable of feeling this way for ordinary folks, because there are a lot more of them out there in the world than the characters you find in romance novels. If you look for the latter, than you may be searching for a long time, and you may regret it down the line.
I agree with AE. “Settling” for someone who is less than “ideal” can be a great thing if it means you have fallen in love with someone who does not align with your particular preexisting list of conditions. You have to get to know people for who they are, not by checking things off a list.
Settling in the sense that one “has” to be married by a particular time, and marrying someone you really do not want to spend your life with, though, is a big, big mistake.
Great advice, comment 13
I disagree with all of the responsed that say love is the aspect that should not be compromised. How many people even get to know someone well enough to love them before they decide to move on to the next shidduch or not. If you do not have core values in place that you believe will contribute to a functional relationship that can withstand whatever challenges Hashem has in mind for us, then fleeting love will not keep you from falling apart. How many couples do you know who do not share core values but are in love and last past the first major challenge that comes their way?
If you do settle, stop holding a grudge against the person you have committed to being with for who they are (or are not). Your relationship will suffer if you lament over what could have been if you had not decided to “settle” (comment 12 has it right)
If your decision to settle or not comes from a place of arrogance, well then maybe you are not ready to receive the shidduch who is going to respect you in return.
My one piece of advice in picking a spouse is to think of your future children with him/her. Of course this applies to the majority of frum couples who usually plan on having a few kids. (no offense to those of you who don’t want any or if you’re past the childbearing age but you’re in the minority if you’re frum)
If you can’t imagine being a parent with this person the deal is off. A lot of personality is genetic (as I’ve discovered with my own kids) and if your spouse has unworkable middot (not that mine does this is hypothetical) you may find those same unworkable traits coming out in your future child.
As for myself, I didn’t settle. I just got very lucky and got the husband of my dreams. And I dated a lot of losers to get to that point.
Yeah, I’ve got the man of my dreams too, but I also had to kiss three really toady toads to find my prince. :^)
Only 3? Lucky you:)
And what’s wrong with toads if-I-may-be-so-bold?
Mammalocentrists, every one of you.
Nah A. Nuran, nothing against non-mammals, but take my word for it …. These were three SERIOUSLY warty toads! ;^D
I’m very lucky: I found my husband who I love and is a wonderful partner.
But, after having my daughter, I did have an ah-ha moment and many women feel the same:
The love(s) of your life are your children!
As a new mother I found myself bewildered at all the years, time & energy, I spent looking for “the one” in a husband. I did find love. But the love I have for my child surpasses — and there is no searching or settling there.
So, if you want kids — find a wonderful partner, wonderful parent, someone who loves you, and love that person back. Don’t miss out!
How old is your child? Children move on (as they should). And there will be a point in time (sooner than you think) when YOU will not be the love of your child’s life. If you have a wonderful spouse, that spouse is here to stay.
My (completely unscientific) personal observations tell me that more women claim to have fallen in love with their future spouses than vice versa. Whether this is due to greater female subjectivity (i.e. deluding yourself into thinking your husband is prince charming, when the next woman doesn’t think anything of him), or a deficiency on the part of men to truly appreciate the uniqueness of their wives, is unclear.
The issue is not ‘settling,’ it’s that in this day and age, we call ‘settling’ what previous generations called ‘understanding life.’ This generation loves to create checklists and refuse to even look at anyone who misses one checkmark. We are looking for absolute perfection, and walk away from reasonable opportunities that can make us happy in pursuit of this ideal. We were trained from birth that life ought to be perfect.
I totally agree, Puzzled.
Me too.
I am a 30+ shidduch crisis female.
I am the modest supermodel who works and would still keep my job and take care of children, yet I am still a statistic.
Did I refuse every guy that I was set up with? Not even close. I found that the guys who I felt were a match for me (Meiskeit marries Meiskeit, money marries money), were not interested and opposite for the guys who I could barely think of two words to say to.
Once I turned 24 I was only set up with much older guys (35+) – I guess anyone 24-29 only wanted someone 18-23 – the trouble being with such an age gap, we had very little in common.
Now that I am over 30, I am matched with guys in their 40’s and 50’s and still can’t imagine living with someone with whom I can’t connect with.
So no, I will not settle! I will not marry someone I can’t be myself with, who puts me second, who treats me like a daughter!
I want to get married and will do that with the next guy that asks me.
Ok the first guy. Just as long as he’s 24…
Calling oneself a modest person, and referring to oneself as a “supermodel” in the same sentence just don’t jive so well together. If I were you, I’d have bypassed the moronic shidduch system, with all of its biases, and searched through other means…. but I am not you, so..
lol the modest supermodel was a quote from an earlier comment posted but its cool. I have bypassed the shidduch system though I will still go on dates if someone has someone in mind for me.
People are who they are – whether you go through a shadchan or not – the issues are still there.
Most younger guys would not feel comfortable dating an older girl. I dont need a shadchan to tell me that. 🙂
I know where it came from, I wrote it as a reference for the impossibly stupid expectations people have. Because it’s not possible, it’s stupid. LIke all the sitcoms with the fugly poor guys and the pretty wives.. It looks nice, but is as realistic as people in the jobs of the folks on “Friends” being able to afford such big apartments in NY..
Where do you live?
Right now? In a two bedroom house that rents at about 1800 a month, and nowhere near a big city.. but my present living arrangements are not typical anywhere.
You go girl!
I too am a 30+ frum female “statistic” – who looks damn good for any age, has an executive position with a top firm, loves kids, and all that isn’t enough for anyone within 5 years of my age (either way!)
I am amazed that the only shidduchim that are ret to me are in their mid-40’s into their 50’s! If they were at all shayech ok… but the matches are so ridiculous as to make me think that the morons on SYAS are literally seeing nothing but my age and sticking me with anyone who will deign to date someone in their mid-30’s!
It’s enough to make me want to give up. Where the hell are you?????????
Anon 1:01pm – I too am a 30+ frum female “statistic” – who looks damn good for any age, has an executive position with a top firm, loves kids, and all that isn’t enough for anyone within 5 years of my age (either way!)
But it IS enough for many people. My brother for example, also a 30+ successful professional (in NY area).
Send Heshy an email with your email address so he can send it to me.
Anon 1:01pm – It’s enough to make me want to give up. Where the hell are you?????????
One of the biggest problems is not being willing to take a risk.
Heshy, if you have her email address, send my email address to her.
Immature love says: “I love you because I need you.”
Mature love says: “I need you because I love you.”….Erich Fromm.
I feel so honored to have Fromm quoted in the comments – super cool
Yes, Fromm is great. He’s exactly my type of OTDer. His points are well-taken here as well. Love is not (when it is healthy) the loss of barriers or the feeling that you cannot live without the other. If that is what you are, if all you are is a vessel for the other, what does the other gain from time spent with you? Love is a decision to be together, a volitional choice – and a commitment to live separately while merging your lives, to maintain your ego barriers because without them, you have nothing to offer – a commitment to fostering the growth of each other.
Love is also a biochemical state brought about by mental changes, pheromones, physical attraction and a number of other things. C.f. Helen Fisher WHY WE LOVE: The Nature and Chemistry of Romantic Love and ANATOMY OF LOVE: The Natural History of Mating, Marriage and Why We Stray.
It necessarily involves breaking down barriers between two people, a destruction of reserve and passions that would be abnormal in other circumstances. ???? is a form of madness which allows us to get close enough to a person to form bonds, have children and raise them. Part of that is a dissolution of some of your independence and sense of an atomic self. And so is the breathless desperate feeling that you can’t live without the other person.
Maybe Fromm doesn’t believe it. I’ve never read him. But it’s universal from the love songs of ancient Sumeria to the Inuit to the Tale of Genji.
If you were still completely separate and didn’t lose a good bit of your normal reserve on a deep pre-rational level it wouldn’t be love. It would be a simple business relationship.
Hmph. It doesn’t like Greek letters any more than it likes Hebrew ones. The word that was blanked out is “Eros”.
Agreed. The point is about a loss of self; the feeling that you do not exist except with this person.
ur welx 🙂
If I were considering “settling” for someone, I’d ask myself if I see in him/her these 3 conditions:
1) A few “checklist” things. Here’s where I think many people are totally unrealistic, and care too much about things like looks, money, professional success, etc. Instead, we should concentrate more on
2) Lots of general “life” and people skills: f.ex. being flexible, understanding, communicating well, dealing well with changes or disagreements, being introspective, trying to cultivate good traits, etc.
3) Love (being realistic and knowing that relationships take time to get to their best).
So, #1 sets up your basic needs (for example, perhaps marrying X would mean living in a place where you really wouldn’t be happy), but these should be as few as possible. In the end, #2 is what matters most in a good marriage.
I agree with this. But too much of the world – frum or not – simply views the world as the search for perfection. “Well, I really like him, he’s cute, we get along great, but on our fourth date, he did this one thing that annoyed me, so forget it.” Then we take this same approach into marriage – we basically view it as temporary until the other person pisses us off enough. Even if, through fight after fight, we stay together, that attitude is still poisonous and keeps the marriage from being as good as it can be. The feeling that the whole thing can easily come apart keeps us from taking chances or being truly ourselves – or doing what we can to foster growth in the other.
Similarly, look at our dating styles. We try to look perfect for the first few dates, setting up an entirely unrealistic expectation. Why waste our time pretending to be something we’re not?
Finally, we should acknowledge something that’s only rarely acknowledged and often denied – there are lots of people you can marry. There are lots of people I can marry. It isn’t some made in heaven, one person on earth, kind of thing. Oddly, the haredi world fiercely denies this, yet operates on a basis that implicitly acknowledges it – and gets, as far as I can tell, a surprising number of healthy marriages out of it. They insist that God assigns each person one soulmate, yet if that were true, their system wouldn’t work. Your soulmate could as easily be in Africa as in your sister’s high school class. People who believe that should be using the internet, the only way to find people around the world .
“Your soulmate could as easily be in Africa as in your sister’s high school class. People who believe that should be using the internet, the only way to find people around the world.”
Puzzled, both of those sentences represented such awesome and thought-provoking comments.
Mahla, do you have a Facebook identity?
Yeah, email me @ mshaebanyanbady [at symbol] yahoo.com and I will totally friend you! :^)
Ooh I love when fans become friends – I’m shepping nachas
Great article. This reminds me of of the old Saturday Night Live skit with 2 middle age guys complaining how they are unlucky in love. In any case, somewhere along the line a third guy enters the skit and tells them to lower their standards. Kidding aside, all too often we are focused on superficial things that do not matter.
In finding love, I think one should focus on what their hopes are for the future. Typically speaking, if the man and woman have similar interests as well as similar goals, it is a relationship worth striving for. Thankfully, I found that special person more than 15 years ago where hashkafah took a back seat and our passions, interests, and goals in life took the front seat as it should.
“Thankfully, I found that special person more than 15 years ago where hashkafah took a back seat and our passions, interests, and goals in life took the front seat as it should.”
Don’t your passions intercept with your hashkafah? I don’t really understand this statement.
I know there is a force-fed idea of what you “should” be looking for, according to yeshivish/chassidish standards. But the real virtue of looking for spiritual compatibility lies in finding people who share those things that are most important to you–emphasis on the “you” as it’s a deeply personal choice. For orthodox Jews this tends to encompass their particular approach to serving Hashem, but this needn’t exclude goals in life, passions, and interests, since these things often relate to a person’s perception of what is of “ultimate” importance to them.
Maybe it’s a psychological thing. For example, if you marry a spouse with bad habit x, you can either be all sorry for yourself and say “I settled” or you could say “That’s my Zivug and his/her imperfections are part of what makes him/her unique. After all, I’m imperfect as well.”
This is a fantastic article on the subject in The Atlantic. It’s not a frum author, but is still relevant:
Marry Him!
The case for settling for Mr. Good Enough
By Lori Gottlieb
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/03/marry-him/6651/
About six months after my son was born, he and I were sitting on a blanket at the park with a close friend and her daughter. It was a sunny summer weekend, and other parents and their kids picnicked nearby—mothers munching berries and lounging on the grass, fathers tossing balls with their giddy toddlers. My friend and I, who, in fits of self-empowerment, had conceived our babies with donor sperm because we hadn’t met Mr. Right yet, surveyed the idyllic scene…
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/03/marry-him/6651/
Here’s the chief problem I see with the shidduch system. To meet a person and evaluate them through the prism of “is this my potential life partner?” from the first word you ever speak to one another creates such an unnatural pressure!
I met my dear, dear partner six years ago in the office. The first words he ever spoke to me (after exhibiting his goofy sense of slapstick humor in some idiot way) were, “I swear to God I’m not high.”
I was like :^O !!! Quite frankly, I did not believe him.
Only through chatting with him about our interests, backgrounds and lives over the next few months — at first casually, and then with a keener interest — did I learn that (A) he was perfectly sober, just hilarious & goofy, and that (B) goofy waters run deep. There was MUCH more to him than first met the eye. NEVER would I have imagined, without months of daily contact with this man, that he was my ‘bashert.’
If I had begun my association with him asking the question “Could this man be my mate? If not, I will never speak to him again except for maybe one more pity encounter & an awkward follow up phone call” we would certainly not have fallen in love and been together for the past 5.5 years! :^)
He is my best friend, greatest supporter and the absolute light of my life. :^)
It’s my greatest hope that Heshy and everyone else reading this who is single finds the kick-ass mate they deserve, through whatever means prove necessary. :^)
I think I am very happy because I have a very good husband, I would not do anything in the house. He’ll help me because I want to do a lot of housework, I was lucky. At least I don’t worry about the affair happen
Loved the article. My ideal situation would be to meet my future spouse on my own. It’s not that I think Shadchanim are bad, because many people don’t find someone easily. On the other hand, many out there feel the pressure to get married ASAP. Maybe if this pressure wasn’t so great, people wouldn’t feel this need to be set up so and married so quickly just to get it out of the way. Then again, every relationship takes work and compromise and some degree of settling.
What is important is how/why you are settling. Is it “Oh I’m already nineteen years old and scared I’ll end up alone so I’m going to get set up and marry anyone as long as he’s Jewish and breathing” or “We have a lot in common and we definitely have a strong connection..maybe he
*insert small and slightly annoying habit/action* but I can deal with those things because the bottom line is that we work well together”. I think we can all see that the first one is illogical, but the second one is a healthy attitude that makes sense.
i cant stand the fact that all you single people are so presumptuous. not every person settles. only the people who others have to settle for settle.
i think settle is the wrong word. pple are scared to tell u to settle but they WILL tell u that in every guy u can put in major effort and most likely “u can make it work if u try” im a 23 yr old bais yakov type girl, and my friends and i are alwayyysss told this as if we are 20 yrs older and are in a desperate situation. since we are not “19 anymore” we shud be focusing on potential more than a feeling, a spark, an excitement, or a connection. i think its SO wrong to tell anyone esp young girls in their low twenties that thwy hav no rite to want to feel something wen seeking thier husband but i guess this is the crazy world we live in
I’ve been in relationships that were unhappy and even abusive because I thought that they were the best I could do and were much better than being alone. I almost feel like a divorcee after my last relationship because we lived together, had a lease, etc.
I’ve had a weird messed-up life but I’m determined not to have a similar future, so I’ll never settle again. I’m 23 and I don’t really care/think about marriage. It’ll likely happen sometime but trying to “catch a man” isn’t a high priority these days.
(I feel weird because there’s a lot of traditional gender roles in Judaism that don’t reflect my family’s behavior–my mom died when I was pretty young so my dad did/does everything around the house and my little sister and I pitched in. I feel uncomfortable when the men sit around while the women deal with food or wash dishes and don’t help one bit. Even at extended family gatherings, my dad would be helping in the kitchen with women. I was helping out after a seder with one family’s women and I handed something to the father and he didn’t even know which cupboard it belonged in. I don’t want to marry a guy who thinks I’m going to cook and clean for him like a 1950s housewife… Am I expecting too much?)
Are you looking for a guy who was raised frum, Julie? Finding a guy who was raised in a traditional way who isn’t traditional in his attitudes about gender roles in the home won’t be easy, but it’s do-able.
In fact, the older you get the easier it is going to get for you, I think.
If you’re 18 years old and meeting guys straight out of the natal home who have been fed, clothed and waited on by Mom and Sis all their lives, they’re not suddenly going to be domestically inclined or even capable. But if you’re talking about guys who are 23, 24, 25 … guys who have been living out on their own, cooking for themselves and independently taking care of themselves, doing their own laundry, etc. … there is a MUCH better chance of them pitching in as an equal partner.
One thing I’ll say to all the gals out there, you need to establish that routine from the get-go. :^) From the minute you co-habitate with a guy or even bring him over to the house to cook for him, it might be your instinct to mother him and take care of him constantly at first, but establish ground rules that he helps out, casually but immediately.
You cook for him, ask him if he’ll do the dishes. You do some laundry, ask him to carry the basket up and down for you, or put it away. You decide you’re going to clean the bathroom one Saturday, ask him if he’ll help out by doing a little bit with the kitchen. Make it routine, not a big deal, and something that is happening from DAY ONE … it will stick and become part of your domestic routine.
Well, probably not “frum” by most peoples’ standards but by my Conservative standards I’ll probably have to marry a Conservative rabbi.
Good luck, Julie. I hope you find a great guy, Rabbi or no. :^)
How about a chore wheel?
I never thought of traditional gender roles for the exact same reason – never really knew my mom so the old man was me mum technically.
Nice feedback but here’s the bottom line. Heshy wants to get married. All the rest is commentary.
If you’re an attractive female between the ages of 21 and 35, intelligent, don’t care about money and are prepared to live in obscure places, Heshy’s your man. Email him. He’s waiting to hear from you.
Also, the gal’s gotta be not only willing & able but ENTHUSIASTIC about road trips, hiking, biking jaunts, camping, kayaking, fishing …. Hell, throw some bouldering in there for good measure ….
Maybe I’m just prejudiced ’cause I live in Eugene, but there are LOTS of girls like that out there and they should hit him up ASAP. :^) Heshy totally deserves a kick-ass girl. :^) I wish I knew some Jews so I could introduce him to one!
Wow thanks for the personal ad, maybe I’ll do one for myself one of these days
Heshy, do one and run it in Outdoor Magazine and the like instead of Jewish publications. :^) Maybe you’d have better luck scouring the outdoorsy community for a Jewish girl than you’ve had scouring the Jewish community for an outdoorsy girl.
LOL, now that’s a good one!
i think he/you hesh, should marry an israeli girl. he should go there, some israeli girls would be more like his type.
Here’s my experience. Love isn’t something you can attain before marriage (unless you livr together before hand perhaps). The thing that people call love before marriage is not real love. It’s an inffatuation,obsession, whatever, but not love. Love comes with sacrifice. Sacrificing for someone else. Doing something for youe sife you wouldn’t do for someone else creates love.
That being said you obviously need to marry someone that you would be willing to fo sacrifices for and create love. If yoy marry someone you don’t like or are bitter about, you won’t be willing to make those sacrifices. So setttle? Yes. Because you can still attain love with someone you “settle”for. But if your gonna be bitter or feel self pity, then No.
You don’t love the person you marry. You marry the person you love.
Billions of couples through the ages say you’re wrong.
about what?
On further reflection, I have come to the conclusion that there is no marriage without settling, in one sense. Sex and the City perfectly illustrates the notion (only popular recently) of, for instance, leaving a kind, caring man whom you are crazy about because he leaves the toilet seat up.
Wtf, just marry a hot hispanic, european or asian chick and don’t waste your life for a man made religion ya clowns