Apologizing is always hard, because you’re admitting you did something wrong and since much of the time people are insincere when they apologize you may just be furthering your douchieness along. For all of you who don’t know, I wrote a post last week that was based on the quote of someone in a closed Off The Derech community on Facebook. I was a lurker, I rarely used the group to post my own links and I used it the same way I use any forum of people I sort of relate to. I used it mostly for ideas and chizuk.
Apparently my post caused a great debate in the community, I had no idea I was kicked out of the community until several folks had told me via email and facebook. Chefs generally don’t have time to stay up on the latest internet happenings, I didn’t even know the post was controversial until I went to check spam pretty long after I wrote the thing. I also had not realized that I violated any rules. I had written a piece about the OTD community’s halachic guidelines a while back and hadn’t noticed any rules about posting things on other sites, I also wasn’t warned, but I understand the need for chumros in the group. It was merely commentary on another post, being accused of plagiarism was a bit much, considering I never said that post was my own and as for the John Lennon theme, that was my own idea – I’m fairly certain other people come up with similar or same ideas for things all the time.
I take down a dozen posts or videos a year due to valid requests and I would have gladly done the same with this. However, since no one emailed said request I just left it up. Usually with such things I get an instant flood of emails asking me to take it down and I’m usually amicable.
Of course I had to go through a grieving period in order to flush any excitement or excuses out of my system. This grieving included something so douchy, it can only be compared to drunk dialing in facebook form. On Saturday night after someone from New York allowing me to take a look at all the debate about my post got me in a loony mood, I posted a status update that stated I had a number of fake profiles and I intended to spy upon the group as the debate over my actions raged. The debate was almost like a Chassidic Misnagdic rift of sorts and was highly entertaining.
In the end, my fellow blogger Abandoning Eden whom I’ve known for years of internet discussion compelled me to admit to my douchieness (not really how to spell this word) and figure out a way to apologize. I should also mention that YLove’s comment about being a OTD ally rings true, but they are absolutely right for kicking me out of the club. I may be a cynical skeptic who isn’t considered frum enough by the frum community and OTD enough for the OTD community (one comment on facebook mentioned how I was in purgatory) but I am still frum and in order to keep the OTD community safe it’s best I not even be around for it may tempt my yetzer to do egregious acts against the OTD halachic guidelines and mesorah.
The OTD community is a strange place and whenever non-OTD people comment on it, we tend to get it wrong. Yes, many of my friends are off the derech, but most of them are not really part of the OTD community. Most of them have left completely and have nothing to do with other folks who are still trying to figure out their lives. Before all you frummies jump in a judge these folks, it’s an incredibly diverse community just like any community and generalizing is wrong. It’s fun for sure, but when I write something serious about them it’s usually not a generalization.
Now here’s the kicker. I need to give a big yasher koach to the OTD community members for being the most respectful debaters in Frum Satire history. In general, when a large group of people get offended by something I put up, it degenerates quickly into personal attacks on me and my family. In all the debates on the OTD board, on my wall, on my blog and elsewhere – I did not see one comment attacking me or my wife personally. I know they will get kick out of this, but the OTD folks were far more respectful and tactful than any frum person who was angry about something I posted. I’ve had frum folks curse me and my family and call us disgusting things. I don’t take being called a douche personally, because I did do a douche thing. The commentary was mostly very thoughtful and I’m still shocked at how respectful. Also, this is the first time that dozens of people did not tell me they were never going to read my blog again, that is classic frum response to reading one thing that angered them.
In the end, according to Rachmuna Litzlon (one of the OTD chazal) I did more for OTD kiruv than he could ever hope to do, my wife and I also decided to give tzedaka to Footsteps as a way of our appreciations for the community.
I should note that Saturday nights facebook post ranks as the douchiest thing I’ve ever done in my life.
Find more OTD stuff on 4torah.com
Well said, Hesh. I think we can be Mochel you.
I am living in the middle of nowhere and therefore perfectly able to completely divorce myself from my frum background. But I have been part of the OTD community in the past, and I sometimes wish I still were. Not because I feel like the frum world is oppressing me and I need to talk about it, but because there is a huge draw to find people with similar backgrounds who I can relate to. The people (including you, Heshy) who say OTDers should just get over it seem to miss that point.
Actually I don’t say OTDers should just get over it. In fact, I think it’s something that’s impossible to get over, anyone who says such things is an idiot. You can’t just leave your entire existence and get over it, saying such things is akin to telling soldiers suffering from PTSD to just “get over it”.
What you just said.
They shouldn’t get over it, per se, but they should stop finding it necessary to attack those that are happily ON the derech. Glad they were respectful to you, though.
Perhaps you were just lashing out because you felt you were being unfairly attacked, but I got the sense that you were at least implying that you felt that way. You certainly said that you don’t get the point of OTD communities.
I don’t lash out, it’s not my style. I also tend to be writing tongue in cheek, hence the name of the website. The point of any community is to have like minded individuals…
you just accused the man of saying that otders should get over it now you’re guessing that he’s lashing out and saying you “got the sense that [he was] at least implying”. let me guess you’re a woman right?
Big surprise- you’re an idiot.
Yea, going OTD is like someone waking up thinking it was still the Bronze Age and now realizes wow humans have progressed since then and we are more advanced. Wow I can see now. We have gone from slavery, eye for and eye, talking donkeys, ruling Cohen class to democracy
Thanks Heshy I really appreciate that you did this. 🙂 Yasher koach
Nice.
Wow Heshy, looks like Rebecca and Arielle really got you by the balls.
Why us and not rachmuna litzlon, he’s also one of the OTD moderators and posted in that thread… 🙂
Rebecca actually had nothing to do with it, I would say that my yetzer tov stepped in and smacked me upside the head. Also Sara B. who I know personally sent me a nice message as well as Ylove.
thanks, heshy.
truth is, heshy and i actually didn’t have one conversation about this incident. i was in the middle of changing the world when this whole incident occurred. (by the way, i love that every time i post here, i get to put the link to my very awesome blog. 😉 )
I feel like Rachmuna Litzlan was never all that pissed about what Heshy did in the first place. He gets it.
Thanks for speaking and thinking for me, Kvetcher, but you must have missed my comment on Heshy’s first status regarding this mess. For someone who professes to have a beef with kvetchers, you tend to do a lot of kvetching.
sounds like kvetcher is jealous
Excellent satire. Of course you’re not sorry.
It’s actually not satire and my Rav just called to tell me that Footsteps is a worthy organization to give tzedaka to.
I know, I know. I was kidding about that every post has a discussion about whether that particular one was actually satire.
Your rav? Do you mean fink, or your local rabbi?
I am still not sure what the offending post was, and I really did try to figure it out on saturday night. Maybe I need to infiltrate the OTD group.
They really should accept me. I’m just cynical as they are; I’m just cynical about them also.
silly me, thinking you were already there.
As an ordained OTD man of the cloth, I hereby accept His holy Bloggerness’s humble and contrite confession of wrongdoing.
The seeds of repentance are sown deep within the soil of doubt, and the pintele skeptic can always be reignited.
We welcome you back Heshy, as we will always, back from the brink of frum oblivion. Even when one stands at the forty ninth level of emunah sheleima, all hope mustn’t be lost, the gates of thought are never closed.
Heshy,
Thank you so much for your apology to our community. Your tzedokoh to Footsteps is also a beautiful and appreciated gesture. Here’s to a fresh start.
Hayley Amanda (Lily)
It takes balls and humility to apologize. Good job, we’ll let you know when the sort of otd group forms.
kudos to you, Heshy. Aside from acknowledging your very eloquent apology, I just want to say I think you are one of the most creative Jewish writers around. The fact that you have haters is a sign of a successful writing career.
You know that chazal are infallible, right? That includes OTD chazal.
As for their mesorah? Well, they don’t light a bonfire on Lag B’omer because Rav Fink paskened that it’s not the OTD thing to do, but they do shoot bows and arrows because that myth hasn’t been debunked yet; so they have a pretty solid mesorah.
ok now we’re all curious about this closet OTD group!
OTD chazal” is that a curse?
Because of you the group is at a new madreiga, they now interview members and are actively searching for moranos. I wouldn’t be surprised if new OTD breakaways w as much fame are formed. It also made us look at our gate and some of us are trying to alter our anger at the frum community to focus more on Kiruv toward those wavering at coming out
Heshy- was nice of you to apologize. I however do NOT have a blog and I feel no need to apologize for what I say. Many OTDers don’t STOP spewing their hateful and immature behavior. They classify anyone who isn’t like them as “frummies” and backwards. Now its one thing if the were moral and respectful. But no, these are a BITTER group with a hateful agenda. While some move forward, and acclimate to new surroundings and live productive lives, some are hell bent on reliving their misery EVERY day dragging as many as they can in the dust with them. SO heres a message to all you OTDers. LIve your life, let us live ours. STop labeling us because we made a choice to believe in a higher power. Stop spewing or nastiness. Go live your life – were living ours
I really don’t appreciate such a comment like that. The gossip does go both ways so please don’t act like we’re all hateful. We would love to live our lives, but sometimes you frummies do not let us live ours because your torah wants you to recruit us back on the derech. No one is ever happy, are they?
We made our choices too, so why must you knock ours but act like you don’t because you’re in a better position because you consider yourself more moral and respectful than us as a whole community? I don’t believe all frum people are bad, but your type of comment doesn’t aleiviate the problem of some of the OTD folks being bitter about how you treat us. You need to earn our respect to get it, not demand respect from us to get it. We’ve been disrespected before by frum people, we don’t need to kiss some more ass again to gain respect.
We are not all hateful, whatever you hear is just hogwash. But of course, I’m going to hear that every single OTDer is hateful and angry and bitter because that’s what some frum people who debate with OTDers here say as a cop-out to make themselves feel better. Because it makes yourself feel better that you’re “better” and more “moral and respectful” than us. So anyone that isn’t frum that disagrees with you is angry and hateful. I totally get it.
it must be difficult being a victim of the otd world, eh?
hang in there, brah.
don’t let the sound of your own wheels drive you crazy.
It must be so hard, being oppressed by such a minority of the Jewish community. Tell me again, how much more moral and respectful the frum community is, with their rebbes/ravs ruling essentially miniature micro-theocracies with iron fists; with people raised to hate their bodies and natural functions from female menstration to sexual desire to simple expelling of waste; to covering-up of child molesters, because, well, if he’s a chazal with smicha, he must know best; to such a wide variety of other offences against the normative, modern world. Things like, ya know, refusing to teach your children the necessary skills/knowledge required to function like a normal human being within society. I don’t care how much gemara you know, if you cannae speak proper English and do simple maths, at the VERY LEAST, to function within normative society, that is child abuse on the parts of the parents. Things like denying the existence of science. Barring girls from education. The list goes on and on ad infinitum. Oops, sorry for the latin in there. I meant ‘leolam va’ed’.
So, perhaps we seem angry. Perhaps we are ‘mean’ and ‘hurt your feelings’. But guess what? You deserve it.
Well said
S’iz keinmol nisht farfallen, but by doing tshuvo to the OTD, you’ve also committed a great aveiro by the kanoyim….
damn, heshy. i’m almost teary over this.
i know that this was probably not easy to write, so thank you for doing so. also, i think you actually may have asked me if you could use the otd rules in your post. (and it was an awesome post.)
(for those of you who don’t know me, you can tell that i’m not being facetious because i’m actually a mod on the otd fb page, which hasn’t seen that much action since–oh, never mind.)
You showed character here where lots of guys wouldn’t.
Thanks Heshy keep up the good work, you have helped me and so many of my friends go OTD.
Why are you stealing my name MS? I am the real ms not you!
I thought I was??
no, I’m MS!
Hey Heshy,
Personally, I didn’t consider what you did all that troubling, but I also understand how discretion is extremely important for the OTD community. It’s a place where we can finally feel safe to talk about things as we see it, and without fear of backlash from the frum world. Also, for many people who are still in the OTD “closet” – as I myself am, to an extent – confidentiality and trust are essential. So, as you wrote, it’s an important “chumra” for us.
Anyways, I’m glad you apologized and we’re all smoothing this over.
Cheers
HOW DARE YOU TALK lOSHAN HORO!
I can’t believe you would say something like that about a fellow Jew. Frum people aren’t quick to judge you just can’t stand frumkeit anymore and yor making up bad about people who are more frum than you are out of jealousy. Im never reading this again you make me sick!
True Hurts. Can’t take truth, be religious.
It truly isn’t often that I’m entranced enough by a blogger to read an entire piece. Absolutely not the case with this one. I can relate on many levels and it was masterfully executed. Yasher Ko’ach and Gut Shabbos.