I am posting this video so you see how dumb you racist bastards sound when you tell me Obama should be shot or that he’s a Muslim. I understand the pain that people are going through – but the ignorance that pervades the frum Jewish community is disgusting and finally you can see for yourself. This video is not really that shocking at all, fact is most of the frum people I know are exactly like this, but the fact that the world will see it is quite disturbing.
There is a lot of foul language so I warned you:
For the record, I am not saying I am a fan of the man – but this is exactly how Aryans and racists and Jew haters sound and I hear all of this talk at shul and at shabbos tables across the land.
In response to your Tweet, I don’t believe this video is why people hate us. Anti-Semitism and whatnot far predates these idiots and their vitriol….but this certainly doesn’t help.
I hope these people suffer major embarrassment as a lesson to them.
Benji
You’re obviously hanging out in the wrong crowd, no wonder you have so many issues with frummies!
Frummies I know don’t hang out on Ben Yehuda….
If you don’t like the people at your shul, why are you still there?
J – I have no issues with frummies…I just am damned good at making fun of them…but I have noticed that the lower the intellect the more likely they are to think I am angry or have an ax to grind.
I don’t have a shul…I shul hop.
“fact is most of the frum people I know are exactly like this,”
Thats unfortunate for you. I’m not even frum and I make sure no one I associate with, frum or not, behaves like this.
This has nothing to do with why people hate jews. People hate jews for tons of reasons, and have since the very beginning of our existence. This video, and it should be noted, a video of a bunch of drunk kids who go to schools in Israel specifically for troubled adolescents, is just that, a video showing there immaturity. Finding a link between this video and antisemitism is a joke.
1. These aren’t necessarily frummies; they look mostly like drunken American college kids.
2. What is this, the winner of the chillul Hashem awards? By posting this video, you’re basically condoning its content, despite your disclaimer. I find the racism infuriating. I’m not going to give it free publicity. But I’m not you.
3. The guy who knows his grandma’s # should join Tzahal, if that’s how he feels. Alcohol inspires bravado. Let’s see him put his life on the line where his mouth is. I wish I knew my grandparents’ #s. They never talked about that stuff, and they died when I was pretty young.
4. Cheers for the guy who wants p ’cause he’s not full of ignorant hatred.
The funny thing is I want to convert to Orthodox Judaism, I’m mixed race, (black),from a secular sunni muslim family (who aren’t particularly religious) then one sees/hears this!!
I’ve even read Yitz Jordan’s experiences about his conversion a paper and thought it would just be a few isolated incidents. When I see this it makes me apprehensive to say the least. Will I just be considered another “-igger” and an ex-muslim! Sad and sickening!!
I am trying to imagine myself at 18, in my first months in Israel after high school chilling on Ben Yehuda, whether I would have been any better.
11 years later…I dread the thought that once upon a time that would have been me spewing racist crap while drunk on Ben Yehuda…
While a small part of me understands, currently my stomach can’t help but turn when I watch that video. It sickens me that people are willing to go that far to denigrate Obama–whether you agree with him or not!
A great Jew once said “Father please forgive them for they know not what they do.”
This video is a funny attempt to make Jews look as vile as the people fighting on the other side of the fence. We are constantly bombarded by videos of ‘fanatical Muslims’ claiming Death to the Jews, Death to America, and Death to our President, be it the former or the current.
Here we have the following: 18-20 year old youths drinking at a bar, being asked about Obama in the wake of a very controversial speech in which the President berated Israel for having settlements which it had permission to build from the US, a speech which reneged on previously laid agreements for the road to “peace.”
Obviously this doesn’t give us the right to mouth off and scream racist profanity, which, by the way is merely a fraction of the actual video. Much of the video is targeted at the person, not the race.
Another important factor to realize is that while these people are angry, they won’t do anything about it. They will mouth off, sober up, and go about their normal business. Trust me, they wont pack themselves with explosives and run up the lawn of 1600 Penna Ave. They won’t hijack planes with the intent of smashing them into the presidents house.
The Muslim videos I have seen calling for “Death to Jews” or “Death to the American Infidels” are recordings of more mature, sober LEADERS of the Muslim world.
This video shows what some Jews were thinking about Obama. To see a reporters take on what Muslims think would be harder. For reference to what Muslims do to reporters that they disapprove of, please look up Daniel Pearl.
You see the problem is that this talk pervades almost every shabbos meal and shul and yeshiva I have been at that calls itself frum (very rarely modern orthodox) Its commonly known that frummies are racist – fine – but to bring it to the public is not fine.
I don’t care if your drunk, and a screwed up kid – if these kids had committed murder – they would have been tried just the same.
If you don’t understand why I am publicizing this video – I cannot explain it to you…I don’t just put things up for a fight – everything has its place and purpose.
If people hate Jews due to a few drunken words,then the entire world should hate Arabs. And Christians. And Hindu. And … everyone else.
People have hated Jews for thousands of years. My own personal theory is that the root of why they hate us is because we killed all their gods by inventing monotheism and popularizing it in many places.
T Arnold,
Of course some people would consider you just another *igger. You can never run away from bigotry. But don’t think that the spew of the few are the thoughts of the masses.
I dont know if to be embarassed or not, but I know those boys from the beggining of the video. I dont agree with what they said at all but… 1)They are not what you would call frummies and 2) That crew knew who to talk to to make it look bad. They were looking for drunk american kids in order to make them look bad. I’m not saying that the boys were right but the reporters were not either right
T Arnold, not to me, you won’t. You are who you are. Please don’t mistake the words of a drunken handful for the views of the masses.
Hesh, I can understand your putting and keeping it up on one level — sh!t like this can’t be hidden and swept under rugs — it’s a real problem. BUT now that you’ve drawn attention to it, how do you propose to effect change for the better?
Or are you just posting it to draw attention to people behaving poorly?
It’s one thing to say something’s wrong. It’s another thing to help make it better. I do what I can in my day to day, how I live my life; sometimes I can do a little good. There’s always more to be done.
You’ve created an opportunity, tossed yourself a ball of tikkun olam potential. Will you run with it? Where? How? I’m asking ’cause I don’t have answers, but I’m open to good ideas.
Well allowing Jews from all walks of life to discuss this may lead some people to change their behavior, discussion never hurt anyone and this one of the few places on the internet where intelligent conversation between different sects of Jews can take place in a uncensored environment – try having this discussion or any two sided talk on Vos Iz nieas
@T Arnold, indeed the amount of times I’ve had to explain to people that I may have grown up Jewish, but I’m not like them. It sickens me. You should know that I rescently unfriended one old asshole buddy on Facebook for posting on his status updates how happy he is about 1,300 dead in Gaza, and how we should cut our boys loose and let them exterminate the entire lot–men, women, and children. He then messaged me asking if I’m excited that Tzahal is going to help India fight back against those (racist term for Pakistani Muslims deleted). Now this guy was never a good friend, just some dude who used to mooch of me and my roommates when I was in YU, but after that, I couldn’t take him anymore. Like I don’t support Hamas one bit, but to be happy that ANYONE is dead? That’s too much for me.
And oh yeah, currently I’ve got plenty of friends who are Muslims, several of whom are even Palestinians. Whenever I go back to hang out with Jews these days, I’m faced with a lot of Islamaphobia. I remember how it was when I was there, so I try to symathize, but I still find my patience running thin when I try. The first question I would ask any of them is “have you ever sat down with a Muslim and had a friendly conversation, like what we’re having right now?” If the answer is no, then I would challenge them to try it out, and I would promise them that if they can put their preconceived notions behind them, tney might enjoy it; they might even find that they’ve got more in common with Muslims than they’d ever like to admit. If the answer is yes, then I’ve got harder work cut out ahead of me.
I agree with Heshy. This can easily give other people anothe reason to have more prejudices about jews.
I`m about the same age as these people and I`m ashamed we jews have been portrayed this way. I may not agree with Obama politically, but who cares if he`s of color. Why does that matter?! He`s a human being.
Even if it were one jew, he would still be representing the entire tribe (religious or not!).
Hesh wrote: Its commonly known that frummies are racist – fine – but to bring it to the public is not fine.
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Racism is not acceptable behavior; not in public, not in private. So what can you do about it, other than not behave in a racist manner yourself and speak up when you see others doing so? Encourage children to be tolerant and accepting. Okay. You got a plan? How can people help? Don’t just say, “this is wrong.” How can that be a constructive enough answer to sh!t like this?
And Hesh, kudos to you, you’re absolutely right. It’s not just drunken asshole American students on Ben Yehuda. My brother is currently a Junior in a MO Yeshiva High School, and from what he tells me, there’s plenty of that crap going around there. He’s one of maybe 5 people in his school who would have voted Obama if he was old enough. Out of the rest of his school, he says that maybe 10 of them can intellectually articulate their problems with Obama, but the rest of them are just spewing that kind of crap. It is wrong, and it should not be ignored!
walk into any college and speak to a bunch of drunk 18 yr olds and you’ll get the identical nonsense
it’s a poor example of what frummies or jews think, its just an example of what immature inebriated morons think
Mookie that is complete BS, drunken college students expose their boobs but they don’t go on racist rants
“try having this discussion or any two sided talk on Vos Iz nieas” That’s funny. And a good point. But all the agnostic reform conservative orthoprax ecohippiedox atheist BT Lubavitchers reading this blog can be not racist until the cows come home and that still won’t change frummies’ (Lubavitchers notwithstanding; apologies to all the sects not mentioned) behavior. So what’s your point? It’s wrong to be a racist asshole. That video makes me want to do not something not nice to the kid in the bandana. But that’s not the answer, either. And it wouldn’t teach him anything. I’m sorry. Sh!t like that really pisses me off. This is a topic about which I am quite willing to become passionate.
CHECK IT OUT: I decided to look up the authors for the video, and this is what Mr. Max Blumenthal has to say for himself:
http://maxblumenthal.com/2009/06/censored-by-the-huffington-post-imprisoned-by-the-past-why-i-made-feeling-the-hate-in-jerusalem/
The other creator, Joseph Dana, had this to say for himself:
http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/06/max-blumenthal-feeling-the-hate-in-jerusalem-on-eve-of-obamas-cairo-address.html
I found this very enlightening.
Edit; sentence should read: That video makes me want to do something not nice to the kid in the bandana.
Hesh I really don’t get you (or any other Jew who voted for Obama). Thus Putz in the White House is letting Iran get a bomb, letting N Korea continue its nuclear testing, cutting spending on a Missile defense program, and trying to force the Netanyahu government to fall. Jeez this administration is standing back while TEHRAN AND PYONGYANG GET THE TOOLS TO KILL 6 MILLION JEWS!!!
With all of this in mind are you really worried about a couple of drunk kids in J town calling Obama the N-Word?? Is this really what your harping on? It seems so insignificant in the grander scheme of things.
i am a bt and have found the less than subtle racism within the frum community surprising and disturbing.
i choose not to remain silent when i hear such things which unfortunately appears to have little impact. my views are attributed to one of the holes in my learning b/c i’m a bt.
this is one of the few areas that i am thankful that i am considered unlearned.
I know first hand from my interactions with students at Yeshiva University how prevalent these feelings are among the modern-orthodox jewish world. It disgusts me that I live in a community where people feel so comfortable sharing such sick, bigoted views in public because they are largely accepted. This, at an institution of higher learning and religious studies. A place that should be grooming the next generation of jewish leaders.
Like the guy in the video, my grandparents are also survivors of Auschwitz. However, my parents raised me differently. Coming from a family that has suffered so much, I was taught that as a Jew, I must understand and side with the plight of the oppressed. I was taught that I have a great deal in common with my African American friends and neighbors and the hardships they have endured. And as an adult, I have on my own come to re-examine some of the things I was taught growing up in jewish schools about Israel and the sad plight of the Palestinian people.
Realizing I live in a community where racism, bigotry, and hate so often seem to be the norm, I have begun to distance myself from modern orthodoxy and identifying with other observant jews. If this is what being a religious jew is about I want no part of it. And in the end of days, when God asks me why, i will tell him i decided to cast my lot on the side of good.
you may love Obama but a blatant disregard for jewish interests is uncalled for
Whoever said I voted for Obama, just because I am not racist doesn’t mean I am happy with what he is doing.
Funny about your thoughts on modern orthodoxy because I find the exact opposite – it happens to be that YU modern orthodox is much different than regular modern orthodoxy in that it is shifting to the right and hence the same ideals as a yeshivish person.
My Dad used to yell at me anytime I’d use racial slurs around him. I used to hate him for it. Now, I still thank him for not raising me to be a racist. I can safely tell people that my parents taught me better.
In my more limited interactions with the rest of the yeshiva world (beyond Yeshiva University circles) people seem to care less about politics. But my interactions with that world have been more limited.
Hesh it’s pretty clear you were a fan of Obama. You said so in one of your previous posts or videos. All that is fair play your entitled to your opinion. But at least be honest about it.
Wowowow.
The comments here are intense (they’ll get better).
I think this is your most controversial post to date.
Under 300 comments, and I’ll be disappointed;).
I don’t agree with the frum commenters that say you shouldn’t post this. We shouldn’t have a need to cover anything up, and if there are horrible things going on in the community, I’d like to think there’s a good chance of people finding out, but thanks to the ghetto mentality (“Holocaust!” – the answer to every question and the head-in-sand syndrome, almost everything is covered up, or conveniently ignored. What we don’t know can’t hurt, after all… It’s called denial.
WOW. I guess you can get lots of good footage on Ben Yehuda filming a bunch of drunk and high kids that should be sitting in their respective yeshiva’s.
The people portrayed in the video are not an overwhelming majority, just a bunch of ignorant fools. I don’t think its worth getting agitated over. Ignorant fools are prevalent in every society, why should Jews be an exception?
Hesh – Mookie that is complete BS, drunken college students expose their boobs but they don’t go on racist rants
You have no idea! I guess you haven’t spent all that much time on college campuses, not the NY ones full of Jews and other minorities, but the ones out of the big cities, like UF in Gainesville, for example. Drunken college students DO go on racist (and worse) rants.
>The people portrayed in the video are not an overwhelming majority, just a bunch of ignorant fools.
Yeah right. The “overwhelming majority” are Obama-loving, left-leaning liberals. Of course!
off the derech, if they are not ignorant they are many times neautral.
yasher koach, Jacob. OTD, who you callin’ frum? lol. not me. But if there’s a responsibility to expose, there’s a responsibility to make change. Who’s putting their actions where their keyboards are? Let’s hear from people who feel racism in the frum community isn’t acceptable and are speaking out against it, when they encounter it. A handful of people come to mind. Let’s here from those who aren’t making it their life’s work, but who do their part one day at a time. What are you doing to help combat this social disease? Last time I was at someone’s home for kiddush and I heard the host refer to someone as a (racial slur against African-Americans), I excused myself and walked home; I didn’t say anything, ’cause I was 11, and I didn’t want to get into an argument with my host. That’s the sort of thing that made orthodoxy very unappealing to me, and would continue to, if I encountered it again. I would not go to that person’s house for kiddush again, and when I see him every 10 years or so, I keep my time around him brief and the conversation light. I do not hope to change his views. I know his daughter does not share them, but I think his sons, unfortunately, do. I don’t know why/how people can think it’s okay to hate like that. It blows my mind.
As for covering things up, that’s why kids who are molested have no one to go to. Covering things up does no good for anyone. But now that it’s uncovered, what’s to be done about it? My answer was to distance myself. You down with OTD? Yeah, you know me. 😆 No, really. This blog has great potential to help effect positive change in the communities it reaches. I would just like to see it do that regarding topics like this.
You know what? And I’m going back to the kiddush house example (after shul, we’d go to a guy’s house for kiddush who had a daughter my age). The mother in the house tolerated the racist discussion or steered it to another topic.
My (female relative) spoke up to this host re: some of the hateful speech he was spewing, and eventually (my relatives) stopped going to that guy’s house for kiddush.
This is a communal issue that needs to be addressed by both men and women. What makes people think it’s okay to use hateful language and generalizations? It’s not.
(I hope this is making sense; I have tour flu and my head feels like it’s full of rice, right now. cooked, fluffy rice.)
SB:
I’m not sure where we disagree.
I agree that the kids should have never made such a video in the first place, but now that they have, and it’s on youtube, it’s definitely going to get a lot of views. I doubt Hesh would have ever put up such a video in the first place, but now that it’s up anyway, I don’t see a problem with discussing it.
I agree that discussion is important. How exactly can you go about affecting “real life” change? I think a blog can be an excellent forum for discussion. On this topic, people can start asking, “why do people hold these opinions?” People can start asking tough questions, and maybe get tough answers. Ignoring a problem won’t make it go away.
To everyone who thinks Hesh shouldn’t publicize this, it’s not just on YouTube but getting linked and discussed on lots of mainstream political sites for the last week, sites with (no offense) much bigger readership than this site and a lot of non-Jewish readers. The cat is out of the bag.
I’m not the insolent one who will hate on obama for his skin color and arab middle name, but let’s just say Jon Voight is THE MAN in this eye opening video. I’m proud that at least one man besides me can see for himself what this false massiah obama really is doing to this country.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXKOotf3B2k
I was just having fun (otd); anon, there’s a difference between saying I personally wouldn’t give the makers of this film free publicity on my own (infrequently posted-to) blog and saying he shouldn’t post this. If you don’t understand the difference, let me know. (I realize your comment was not specifically directed at me.) What I don’t understand is the use of a video of wasted mostly American MO kids to bring up the issue of racism being ignored/accepted by many in the MO+ community. This sort of behavior is not acceptable and it’s not okay.
I found this article by the guy behind the video: http://maxblumenthal.com/2009/06/censored-by-the-huffington-post-imprisoned-by-the-past-why-i-made-feeling-the-hate-in-jerusalem/
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While interesting, it doesn’t seem to be about what seems to be the intended topic at hand (the blight that is acceptance of racist behaviors and attitudes).
I’m with the yid with the long payos.
I don’t trust, Am Yisrael belongs in Eretz Yisrael.
BUT I am thankful that I live in the United States and not Yemen or France…
So I say we need to end the racist rhetoric and truthfully represent the Jewish people and Israel with dignity.Thats the only way to get some political support for Israel from a goveernment that seems to want to build a strong relationship with our enemies.
Hesh: Seems like these people are Birthrighters, who for the most part, party every night and get drunk.
Additionally, the people who made the video and edited it, are mega leftists who WANT the effect of the film. Your response is exactly what they wanted. BTW – If I found a group of drunk leftists, Im sure they would be spewing the same sort of language and racism.
@Heshy Good on ya for calling this out. I mean that from the bottom of my heart. But, I understand the pain that people are going through kinda rings like “some of my best friends are [insert minority group here]”. Whats to understand? Wrong is wrong. But I think you know that already.
@perplexed #24
Were you born yesterday? The problems with North Korea and Iran predate Obama by a long shot.
@T Arnold #6
Converts to any stream of Judaism can face issues about “not looking Jewish”. Its bone stupid, but we’re human just the same as everyone else. I’m not a frummy and wont speak for them, but I can tell you from my own experience that there are Jews and Rabbis of all stripes who understand that converts from all the nations of earth are to be welcomed amongst the children of Israel.
And to think that the parents of these kids sent them to Israel to learn or study in college despite the expense. I hope that some parents out therte recognize their partying drunken offspring.
Go spend some time in the black hat community mention Obama or start using the N word like your back in the days of Jim Crow and tell me it wouldn’t be widely accepted.
I have spent time in multiple frum communities and nowhere has it ever not been racist. Of course that depends on your definition of racism, all of my Rabbeim in high school were racist, as were all the students, all of my charedi cousins in Monsey, Israel and Brooklyn are racist and would admit that outright.
But then again, is saying that the “only good black guy is a dead one” or “I wish they would lynch Obama” or “why doesn’t someone just shoot him?” racist or just joking?
that girl had some really nice SHOWMEN!!!!
Yeah, this video is a chillul hashem. Hesh, I don’t care whether you put up or not, people will see it anyway. But look, these kids are my age and we’re not the smartest age group int he world. Especially when we’re drunk. And there are just some things hat should be pointed out.
1. These kids were pretty clueless about politics. example: “Who is Netanyahu?”
2. They were drunk, people say stupid things when they’re drunk.
3. They are not “frummy” by no stretch of the imagination. Did you see the way they were dressed. So racism in the frummy world is irrelevant to this video.
4. These kids were still getting drunk in town, this late in the year. Probably not the most mature crowd in the world.
5. Racism is such BS these days with real racism, mis-directed racism, and affirmative action. it’s all so stupid. Everyone tends to be racist against something. Just some people suppress or work on removing that feeling.
6. Only people who are ignorant or looking to hate the Jews are going to take this video seriously. A mature, knowledgeable, (non-racist), viewer will know this is a carefully edited video of drunk teenagers and in no way an accurate representation of the Jewish people.
First of all these kids look pretty far from frummies. As noted by Blumenthal himself , these kids are Long Island type college boys. Please stop stereotyping us as insensate bigoted boors. ( which by doing, you paradoxically turn into ) used as expendabe punchlines whenever you’r feeling lazy or uncreative.
Second. Next time you’r in Monsey come with me to Viznitz or Satmar and we’ll do our own interviews. You’ll be shocked at how informed and encompassing these people are. I actually think since they are more discriminated against than the average Jew it has made them more tolerant than most.
This is total bullshit. These kids do NOT represent the frum world, they represent a bunch of frustrated Jews who see Obama taking up the cause of his fellow Muslims against us.
And I totally agree with the last line of the video.
Viznitz and Satmar vote with their wallets, and having more social programs is what they want.
Ah, the racism of American Jewry rears it’s ugly head.. Sure, these guys might not be the most frum, but I have heard a RAV talk about the “good old days” in South Africa where the “shvartzes knew their place”, and while I will not name him, there is no doubt he is considered “frum”..
All right then come on by and we’ll shmooze with them ( admittedly I’ll have to be your Yiddish interpeter )
Besides most of America votes with their wallet. Heck, nearly our whole premise of existing as a country and not being an English colony is because of our wallets. Don’t spin everything Chasidim do into bull*** . There is enough to attack them about, no need to contrive.
Look I’m frum attend yeshiva and am a racist, but everyone I know is – its not really a bad thing. I don’t hate black people, I just their culture of drugs, rap, crime and blaming the white people for all of their issues. Slavery ended in 1865 deal with it.
In my Yeshiva its realism not racist, blacks commit crime, do drugs and are ghetto and poor and this country would do better without them.
The video does not represent the frum community as a whole, but I agree with what they were saying. Obama wants to take away our gun rights, divide Jerusalem, promote immorality like gay marriage and abortion and his black community socialistic ideals.
You are a bunch of morons, its not racism, its just that you people are too politically correct to see the truth
I love how frum people like to say, “they’re not really frum people” and “they don’t represent all of us”, if the old shooting the messenger (calling the critic an anti-Semite, or just “bored”, if you’re lucky) doesn’t work. Always the knee-jerk defensive reaction, “they don’t represent all of us” yada yada yada. You guys sound like a broken record already.
That video was encouraging. Sure, they’re a bunch of drunk kids who should probably be in a frat house rather than on the street, but maybe Israel is a little safer than some American cities. Anyway, at least they know whose side they’re on, and some are willing to call a spade a spade. Whoever has problems with this either isn’t used to drunk adolescents, or has greater problems with an occasional apparently anti-Black phrase than a with an obviously pervasive Anti-Jewish policy.
>I’m frum attend yeshiva and am a racist, but everyone I know is – its not really a bad thing.
Tells me all I need to know.
To everyone defending this video, you are just as bad as the kids in it. If you cannot make your point without being rascist and biggoted, then you probably don’t have a point to make.
Whether these kids are furm or not doesnt matter, they are representing Jewish people, and if you think for a second thing like this dont contribute to the modern hatred of Jews, you are sorely mistaken.
You don’t have to like Obama, but come up with a reason based on his policy and politics, not on his skin. If you can’t, then you should probably stop talking.
@56 Racist and knows it,
You realize it wasnt really that long ago when people would have said the same things about Jews in the USA. Actually, people still say it. You probably are not a bad person, just terribly ignorant. Get out and see the country a bit, rich parts and poor parts, white, red, yellow, brown and black parts. OTOH, there’s still a chance that you are in fact a bad person.
Thanks for the post Hesh. You’ve given us just another reminder for Jews to be role models to the world and to value staying educated on what’s going on in the world too.
It’s too bad, I actually knew that guy who said his grandmother’s tattoo #. Nice guy he was… but still no excuse for ignorance and running your mouth recklessly. You think people would stop and think (yeah even if they’re drunk) and realize anything they say to a camera could can go public online…
@48: that’s not stuff to joke about, that’s not funny and if I encountered people talking like that, I’d most likely say something and remove myself ASAP.
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I’m with OTD and Becky on this one. I’d love to hear from some MO/MO+ people who do not find racism acceptable and do not tolerate such derogatory discussion in their homes.
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And re: the kid saying white power — he is ignorant. Jews aren’t white to the white power folks, and they’d string his ass up from a tree, if they could get away with it.
The KKK is not a hechsher organization, it’s a group of people who may do you harm for being Jewish. Shut your mouth and go study krav maga or another martial art.
If you believe “for every Jew, a .22,” get a license and please learn to use it safely and keep a lock on it if there are children in your house. I don’t worry about bans of automatic or even semi-automatic weapons. There’s no reason anyone needs them for personal use. Police and military, sure. But not Joe Citizen.
I encourage those who believe am yisrael belongs in eretz yisrael to make aliyah.
Am I the only one here who thinks the last line was the most important?
Everyone is so focused on this racism/non-racism issue, let’s not forget what’s most important.
Becky // Jun 10, 2009 at 1:29 pm
“To everyone defending this video, you are just as bad as the kids in it. If you cannot make your point without being rascist and biggoted, then you probably don’t have a point to make.”
Wrong. These kids have a point to make. However, being drunk, they don’t make it to those who are too slow to get the point without their help. As far as my being just as bad as the kids, while that is not entirely true (I’m not as ignorant as one or two of them), it is certainly nothing to be ashamed of. Like I said, at least they know whose side they are on. Would you believe that there are actually Jews so stupid or so uncaring about Israel that they actually voted for that Jimmy Carter wannabe? For shame!
“Whether these kids are furm or not doesnt matter, they are representing Jewish people, and if you think for a second thing like this dont contribute to the modern hatred of Jews, you are sorely mistaken.”
YOU are sorely mistaken. Modern hatred of Jews existed before these kids were born, occasionally for good reason, mostly not. Sucking up to anti-Jewish politicians or populace is a bad idea regardles of the bigots’ race.
“You don’t have to like Obama, but come up with a reason based on his policy and politics, not on his skin. If you can’t, then you should probably stop talking.”
Most intelligent people know what is wrong with B. Hussein Obama’s politicy and politics, and the few who didn’t should have been reminded by his speeches shortly before this set of interviews. That a few drunk kids spoke wisely rather than deeply may offend you, but it does not offend me.
Am Yisroel chai.
I am not a racist. I consider all non Jews the same, be they black, white, yellow or red. We stand apart and the majority of “them” just don’t like us.
What else you expect from a bunch of drunk kids? I’ve seen worse.
Fact is many people, especially Jews are pissed off at Obama. From day one he hasn’t done anything positive in office. All he’s done is repel some Bush laws to try to gain popularity.
With his latest statements about America being a muslim country, and asking Bibi to fly the UN flag over the Kotel instead of Israel’s, he has confirmed which side he is on.
He is the ultimate hypocrite and liar as well. All throughout his campaign, he tried to distance himself from his muslim heritage, now he’s suddenly proud of it.
The guy is going to destroy whatever is left of America with his “bright” ideas, it’s going to take a huge amount of time, effort and $$$ to rebuild your country once he’s gone. I truly believe he is more dangerous to Israel than any president since Jimmy Carter.
And yes, I would be very happy if he was shot and killed, not because I’m a racist and he’s black, but because he’s an anti Jewish muslim sympathizer that’s in charge of the only superpower that was once on our side.
offthederech – I love how frum people like to say, “they’re not really frum people” and “they don’t represent all of us”, if the old shooting the messenger (calling the critic an anti-Semite, or just “bored”, if you’re lucky) doesn’t work. Always the knee-jerk defensive reaction, “they don’t represent all of us” yada yada yada. You guys sound like a broken record already.
From the looks of them in the video, perhaps they represent you 🙂
They do seem pretty much off the derech.
I can’t speak for the entirety of the Orthodox Jewish community, but I can tell you that the Chabad community I grew up in is virulently racist.
The not-so- subtle undertones of racism are prevalent throughout the community, and kids are inculcated with this nonsense (while bemoaning anti-semitism) from birth.
Even after many of them have dropped out of the community, they still carry their right-wing politics and racism like a badge of honor along side the Chai necklaces and Hookah pipes.
Befuddling. Sad.
Former Lubab,
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that most lubabs or at least one of their parents grew up in Crown Heights, one of the worst areas in Brooklyn thanks to criminal activity perpetrated mainly by black people in that neighborhood.
My wife was mugged in Crown Heights back in her seminary days, when she went to the police, they pulled out volumes of mugshots for her to look at. They actually had 80,000 black people listed in them, all with prior convictions!
Speak to any Jew that grew up under muslim rule, and you’ll very likely hear that the only good arab is a dead one, and not to trust them even when they are 6 feet under.
Speak to any Jew that lived in EasternEurope during the war, and they’ll tell you that the inhabitants of their country were even worse than nazis (Hunarians, poles, etc.).
Simple fact, Esav hates Yaakov. No matter where we go, we will always be hated by goyim in general, don’t fool yourself by thinking America is any different.
consider this my rebuttal http://www.dailypress.com/news/dp-local_wright_0610jun10,0,7603283.story i think at this point we should all realize it goes both ways and its only going to get real bad real soon.
also for the sake of conversation i would like to ask does Rev Wright represent the “Black” ideology just as much as these dumb ass kids represent the Jewish ideology?
i found a list of who “them Jews” are and you can relax Hesh because neither of us are on it.
David Axelrod (2009- ) Senior Advisor to the President
Jared Bernstein (2009- ) Chief Economist and Economic Policy Adviser to the Vice President
Rahm Emanuel (2009- ) Chief of Staff
Lee Feinstein (2009- ) Foreign Policy Advisor
Gary Gensler (2009- ) Chair of the Commody Futures Trading Commission
Elena Kagan (2009- ) Solicitor General of the United States
Ronald Klain (2009- ) Chief of Staff to the Vice President
Jack Lew (2009- ) Deputy Secretary of State
Eric Lynn (2009- ) Middle East Policy Advisor
Peter Orszag (2009- ) Director of the Office of Management and Budget
Dennis Ross (2009- ) Special Advisor for the Gulf and Southwest Asia to the Secretary of State
Mara Rudman (2009- ) Foreign Policy Advisor
Mary Schapiro (2009- ) Chair of the Securities and Exchange Commission
Dan Shapiro (2009- ) Head of Middle East desk at the National Security Council
James B. Steinberg (2009- ) Deputy Secretary of State
Lawrence Summers (2009- ) Director National Economic Council
Mona Sutphen (2009- ) Deputy White House Chief of Staff
On one hand, this video is a deliberate attempt to manipulate public opinion. The people shown in this video are drunk 19 and 20 year olds attending “rehab style” yeshivas such as Ner Yakov and the like. I can say this because I recognize many of them. To say that these people represent a large percentage of the Orthodox is to spread false information. These are just drunk OTD kids speaking the way they normally do in order to get attention from a guy with a fancy camera. On the other hand, the ideas they express are somewhat of a product of the racism that is allowed to exist in the Orthodox community. Most of the educated and upstanding would not express themselves this way (with this kind of vulgarity), but many upstanding and NICE Jews would agree with some of these opinions due to the propaganda on our side of the media (theyeshivaworld, for example). This is a sad reality. In an ideal world, all media outlets with an agenda would be banned, and much less would be wrong with the world. Unfortunately, we don’t live in an ideal world…
So if Obama is so anti-Jewish as some of you claim, why does he have so many Jews around him?
eyecanspel,
You’re a fool. You think that it’s better to only have the goyisha media. I’m not surprised most of you feel this way. The majorirty of people here are not on the derech, so I don’t suppose many of you care what happens to the motherland. The reality is that Obama feels he can just tell Israel what to do. The reality is that he continues to go all over to Arab lands on our tax dollars, um when did he go to Israel? I haven’t read of this in the Hamodia, Yated or goyisha paper.
anon,
to make him look good to us so he can just run us over.
“And yes, I would be very happy if he was shot and killed, not because I’m a racist and he’s black, but because he’s an anti Jewish muslim sympathizer that’s in charge of the only superpower that was once on our side.”
Phil – thank you for backing me up:
Anon,
He is probably surrounded by Jews to further distance himself from being called a muslim by the average American.
As for those Jews, they are for the most part “left wing liberal yes men”, so don’t expect them to stand up for what’s right for Israel.
Some say the video proves all or most or many Jews are racist.
Well, if that is the case, this video proves that all or most or many Obama voters are uninformed –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm1KOBMg1Y8
The techniques used by the interviewers and videographers are similar.
A video can prove anything you want it to prove.
that girl who said she was a political science major and didn’t know who netanyahu was while in Israel… what’s with that? she was trying to say she was an expert on politics and she doesn’t know the name of the prime minister of the country she’s visiting and probably says she loves? that’s absurd.
Mark,
You were right on with that comment to OTD.
Some people are so desperate to look for excuses for their own agenda, they don’t realize they make zero sense to prove their point.
Sorry. I can’t hold this back. This post is directed to the person who goes by “Racist and knows it”
…Dude, you’re a sick individual, and the fact that your yeshiva buddies share your views is no excuse. If that’s what learning in yeshiva does to you it really makes me wonder.
God asked us to be a light to the nations. Your bigoted stereotypes of African Americans and desire for a country without them makes you sound like a white supremacist.
Have our yeshivas turned into Hitler Youth Centers?
I have a great number of African American friends who do not commit crimes or do drugs, as you suggest. Rather, they good people, something you yeshiva students apparently know little about. If what you say about yeshiva students is true, it sounds to me that this country (and any other for that matter) would probably be a lot better off without yeshiva students.
It makes me sad that culturally I probably share so much in common with you.
Mark: >They do seem pretty much off the derech.
Excuse me, but I happen to know a few of the kids in the video, and I’m quite certain they’re not off the derech.
Anyway, the main reason I use the name “offthederech” is to disclose my philosophy before posting on Yiddishkeit. Instead of giving myself a name like “Yeshiva dude” and posting on Jewish topics, I’m upfront about my beliefs. No, I don’t hate Judaism, or Jews, or Israel (newsflash to frummies: not every critic of yours hates you). I know it’s a lot easier to dismiss every one of your critics as Jew-haters, but it’s immature. It’s also in your own best interests to have honest discussion. Would you want your government, or the telephone company to be above criticism? Probably not. So why is it so offensive to question rabbis, or the way things are done in the frum world? More to the point, why are you so afraid of allowing people to question? You wouldn’t have anything to hide, would you? Yeah, right.
Michal: >The majorirty of people here are not on the derech, so I don’t suppose many of you care what happens to the motherland.
That is highly offensive.
Besides, who ever said these kids are OTD? A frum commenter on my blog had this to say, “There is no reason to think they OTD’s at all unless there is actual evidence. And anyways, I have seen that most OTD charedi Jews tend to be more compassionate.” So there.
http://offthed.blogspot.com/2009/06/indoctrination-is-ugly_10.html#comments
And not to waste my time, but Homey – if you have something to say, you can say it to my face.
By the way, don’t you have a religious commandment to remember that you were once a slave … thousands of years ago.
http://mixedjewgirl.wordpress.com/2009/06/10/hate-in-jerusalem/
Maybe you need to see how a Jew of color feels about this video.
@ Michal Bas Avraham
“You’re a fool. You think that it’s better to only have the goyisha media. I’m not surprised most of you feel this way. The majorirty of people here are not on the derech, so I don’t suppose many of you care what happens to the motherland. The reality is that Obama feels he can just tell Israel what to do. The reality is that he continues to go all over to Arab lands on our tax dollars, um when did he go to Israel? I haven’t read of this in the Hamodia, Yated or goyisha paper.”
WOW. Talk about reading “comprehension”. I did not say that we would be better off with only non-Jewish. I said that ALL media has an agenda, and we would be better off if no media sources had their own agendas. We know this to be impossible. This is the way it is and it will not change. As to why you don’t see the Yated calling Obama a “nigger”, it’s quite obvious and I said it in my post as well (but you didn’t get it). The VULGARITY is not going to be there because it’s not PC (and maybe not legal, I don’t know) to write that way in a newspaper. However, the SENTIMENTS that these kids are expressing are, although a minority view, VERY much alive in the Orthodox community. I grew up in a VERY Yeshivish community and I am still religious. I don’t particularly like Obama either (I didn’t vote for him). I don’t particularly like what he does either. And I certainly do care what happens to “the motherland” (disgusting term, but whatever). My proof that I care: I’ve been here for the last two years and all my nephews and nieces live here. If that doesn’t give me a vested interest, I don’t know what does. Sorry but you obviously missed my point completely.
Excuse me, but I happen to know a few of the kids in the video, and I’m quite certain they’re not off the derech.
Ah, if you know them personally, then you are probably right. But in any case, they were engaging in lots of behavior (lack of respect, lack of self respect, public drunkenness, pritzus, bad language, smoking, lack of wearing a kippah, indicating that they want premarital sex, etc) that is indicative of being off the derech. But since you know them personally, I’ll have to defer to you. But I do wonder why you waited until your 6’th comment on this post to mention that you know some of those kids?
OTD,
Consider it to your face.
‘racist and knows it’- how can you say that being racist isn’t really a bad thing? Do you actually know any black people? How DARE you??
I am of mixed race, and I have NEVER committed a crime, nor have I done drugs. I am not ghetto in any sense, I live in the suburbs, and my dad (who is black), is a professional accountant. I went to a private school throughout my life, and I have a degree in business (from one of the best schools in the country), and I’m now doing one in law (yet again, from one of the best schools in the country). My parents paid for all my education, and will continue to do so. This MUST be the ‘ghetto’ behaviour you’re speaking of!!
You should note that I refused to state my race on any of my applications, so I was not admitted through affirmative action. And my name is quite ‘white’ sounding, so the admissions officers didn’t admit me based on thinking I ‘sounded’ multi-racial. Nor am I involved in any activities which would give an indication as to my background.
I am an upstanding citizen (I vote, I volunteer, I work in the summers, and I attend school from September-April), and you have NO right to tell me that my country would be better if me, my siblings, and my father didn’t exist. In fact, there’s a good chance that I will provide more positive benefits to society overall then you will.
Admittedly, I am not the norm, but that gives you no right to generalize and decide that EVERY black person is denigrating society. You must be aware that a small segment of the black population behaves as you think- just as a small segment of the frum population thinks as you do.
I hope that someday in the near future that racism toward black people is removed from Jewish thinking, because it is extremely hurtful to Jews of colour.
You #56, give the wonderful frummies I know a very bad image.
>in any case, they were engaging in lots of behavior (lack of respect, lack of self respect, public drunkenness, pritzus, bad language, smoking, lack of wearing a kippah, indicating that they want premarital sex, etc) that is indicative of being off the derech.
That would only be true if being “on the derech” correlated with good behavior. In my experience, frum people are far less well-behaved than off the derech people and secular people, and yes, even goyim, so I can’t say I agree with any of your premises.
>But I do wonder why you waited until your 6?th comment on this post to mention that you know some of those kids?
Look, I don’t care if you believe me. As a non-frum person, I saw no need to show off. However, now that some of you are dismissing their behavior by saying they’re “off the derech” (as if all on the derech people behave so well. I have many BT friends who were shocked beyond belief teaching frum kids. they couldn’t believe how horribly the kids behaved), I feel it’s relevant to mention that I know two of the kids in the video, both wearing kippas and from normal frum families, so i see no reason to assume they’re off the derech. Even if you wanted to say they’re off the derech (so as to discredit their opinions), how do you define “on the derech.” How do you know if someone is on or off? (I know! Anyone who gives you a good name is “on”! Anyone who gives you a bad name is “off”! Woohoo!) And this is not about me, so don’t try to make fun of *me* for being off the derech. It’s about *you*, and your racist brother pigs.
Homey: I’m so scared.
OTD,
Um…you asked me to say it to your face. That’s kind of hard to do online. Nevertheless, I acquiesced to your absurd demand.
Not only are you scared, you’re very confused. Hence, you’re OTD.
You’re a complete asshole.
And yes, I was sarcastic when I said I’m scared.
you must take this down. it’s a huge chilul hashem. the people in this video are not frum jews. It’s so sad…. no matter what we feel about Obama, this kind of talk is an outrage.
@ Chilul Hashem
I agree with your first point, but I disagree with your second. The chilul hashem was committed when these kids acted the way they acted. The public knows about this, and taking it down from here will have no effect. You fall in line with those people who say we should not publicize the names of child molesters because it is a chilul hashem. It most certainly is a chilul hashem, but NOT publishing them is a much bigger chilul hashem. Props to you for being able to spell properly!
OTD,
Even if I was interested in debating the issue, I wouldn’t bother to debate anything with you.
@Homey
Don’t waste your time. Some people are not worth debating. For some, this is because you won’t win, and for others, because you can’t win (people such as OTD).
Does anyone have an answer for me?
As I stated in my first post, none of the comments being made in the video shocked me. They were what I hear coming out of the mouths of orthodox jews in my community on a regular basis.
Why should I wish to belong to such a vile group of people who comfortably say such things out loud? The non-jews and non-religious jews I know and interact with seem to be such better people overall.
I know I can’t forget who I am. I’m just so disheartened to see such filth spewing from the lips of young jews. I hope there are rabbis, teachers, leaders, and persons of conscience who watch that video and stand against it, that the heart and soul of this segment of klal yisrael not be lost.
I’m a black Jew, frum from birth, I have to deal wit this kind of racist shit on a daily basis whether it was in school or shul. It is NOT a chilul hashem to post this video, but instead a chilul hashem to ignore this situation that I and my family, and other black jewish families orjust plain jews of color have to deal wit.
i want a better world for my children to growup and the frum community needs to deal wit their bigotry. and NO it is not a random thing, it is quite frequent. and thewhole “cursed cham” ideology doesnt help either
good for u ,frum satire,and shame on all of u who oppose the posting of this video
Hold on. Am I supposed to fight now with Homey, or what?
(Homey: your name sucks. And you don’t have a blog. You suck.)
Eyekanspel,
Good advice, I agree wholeheartedly. That’s why I’m gonna back off.
FFB blackjewish girl,
That must be tough, I hope you continue having the strength to cope.
Jacob: Just do your own thing – or move to a more liberal community
Jacob – Does anyone have an answer for me?
As I stated in my first post, none of the comments being made in the video shocked me. They were what I hear coming out of the mouths of orthodox jews in my community on a regular basis.
If you hear such disgusting stuff in your community on a regular basis, then you are definitely living in the wrong community.
Why should I wish to belong to such a vile group of people who comfortably say such things out loud?
You shouldn’t!!! If I lived with such a group of people, I would do my utmost to move away from there as soon as possible.
The non-jews and non-religious jews I know and interact with seem to be such better people overall.
Seem? Have you ever seen them in a less inhibited state, perhaps drunk or otherwise impaired, with goading friends/media around them?
I know I can’t forget who I am. I’m just so disheartened to see such filth spewing from the lips of young Jews. I hope there are rabbis, teachers, leaders, and persons of conscience who watch that video and stand against it, that the heart and soul of this segment of klal yisrael not be lost.
So far, I have seen nobody standing with these people or these comments. I think there is universal disdain and disapproval.
Mark,
I take issue with your last statement of, “So far, I have seen nobody standing with these people or these comments. I think there is universal disdain and disapproval.”
I totally agree with the last comment made on the video, and so far no one seems to agree with me. They’re all concentrating on everything before (something about Obama).
Hornball,
I think most us guys and even the lesbians are with you.
Mark: That is such BS.
>If I lived with such a group of people, I would do my utmost to move away from there as soon as possible.
Why do you have to always blame the victim? Why is the responsiblity on the victim to move from a community like that, and not on the community to change? And more important, why are we so uncomfortable discussing the problem itself?
>So far, I have seen nobody standing with these people or these comments. I think there is universal disdain and disapproval.
Absolutely ridiculous. There has been very little condemnation. Not many have agreed with the sentiments expressed in the video (although quite a few have, even on this blog), but very few people have condemned it. Further, people like Frum Satire say things like, “I hear all of this talk at shul and at shabbos tables across the land” and I don’t see anyone addressing that. Actually, it’s a problem that’s almost never talked about in general. If not for this video (of kids getting caught on camera saying racist things), we probably wouldn’t be having this discussion. Is it a problem we don’t like to talk about, or just a fluke, that some kids said dumb things on camera? You decide.
Anyway, I don’t think a single FFB was shocked by the statements on the camera. Sure, they may have been pissed that the kids said these things, and made them all look bad, and they may have been frustrated that the kids didn’t keep their mouths shut, but I don’t think a single one of them is shocked about the statements they made on camera. I know what they said was *nothing* compared to what I’ve heard some rebbeim in yeshiva say.
((jacob)), take the good parts with you and double your efforts to not be like the behavior that disgusts you. Lead by positive example, and speak up when you see things that aren’t right. It’s a hard battle, one day at a time, but it’s worth it.
Aliza, thank you. BFFB, I’m sorry you run into such ignorance and unkindness. It’s reprehensible, and there’s no excuse for it. Hornball, I haven’t commented on your favorite part of the video because I am attracted to men, not women (and not guys whose comments are all one-trick ponies about how horny they are).
OTD, it is the responsibility of the community to make this change; if you have some ideas on how to implement it, I’d love to hear them. The filth spewed from some of those kids’ mouths is stuff I don’t understand how people can’t condemn. “White power?” Please! Take that kid to a Klan meeting and teach him how white he isn’t. Racial discrimination is NOT acceptable, and neither is sinas chinam. These people need re-education, hardcore. It will not be easy to undo years of hearing racial slurs tossed around like they’re not arrows of hate. From the bottom up (kids to rebbes/parents) or from the top down (vice versa), this change is long overdue. The time to begin was years ago; let’s go.
offthederech, i realize you may have been taught differently, but there is more than one type of frum community. im not denying that you`ve witnessed racism or that it exists in some communities, but not in all of them .
as for leaving the community if you disagree with it, that has nothing to do with being a victim. its a choice. if you dont like the way a certain community thinks or behaves,you can either try to change it or you can leave it. that`s a person`s freedom. i dont have to leave torah just because i hate the behaviors or attitudes of some `torah observant`people. i just need to find a community that fits with my views.
Mookie:
>im not denying that you`ve witnessed racism or that it exists in some communities, but not in all of them .
How do I know it doesn’t exist in some communities? The communities in which it exists don’t exactly go around advertising it, and I imagine, neither do the communities in which it doesn’t exist.
>if you dont like the way a certain community thinks or behaves,you can either try to change it or you can leave it.
Distancing yourself from a harmful environment, in this case a racist community, is always a good idea. I don’t disagree. But does that have to be all you do? (And about changing – how exactly do you go about changing it?) Let’s say it’s not just a community that holds these views, but your siblings. Now what?
>that`s a person`s freedom.
I didn’t know we had freedom to come or go. In my experience, people who leave get called Nazis. (Nothing personal, I’m just still pissed about the whole Garnel thing.)
>i dont have to leave torah
You don’t. But it’s highly recommended. (:
otd, let go of the Garnel shit; it’s getting in the way of your ability to have rational conversations. sticks and stones, man. if I call you a smurf, will that help? 🙂 seriously. And part apology, ’cause I’m not aware of exactly what went down between the two of you, I just see the results of it getting in your way, here. I don’t know about siblings. I know about a (different close relative). I worked on that (dcr) slowly and steadily, calmly and rationally; eventually my hard work paid off. Having the support of other relatives on the particular topic definitely helped. In my experience, change happens one person at a time, starting with oneself. ymmv.
I am a bit disappointed in a number of posters here. Despite the title of the thread, the Youtube video is obviously not about racism. It is about a couple of anti-Jewish people with a video camera asking a bunch of drunk adolescents about Obama’s latest pronouncements, getting a lot of answers, and then choosing to include a couple of racist remarks in their edited video. The motivations of the videographers have been discussed here and on the other thread, but what is interesting (and disappointing) to me is that an interview about reactions to Obama’s anti-Israel remarks has been turned into a discussion of racism by a bunch of Jews who should know better. Even the edited video contains only two or three racist comments, and they were all made by drunks. Where is the discussion of B. Hussein Obama? Where is the discussion of his remarks? Where is the discussion of the “two-state” solution which has produced strife since 1948?
A bunch of Jews arguing about so-called Jewish racism when that isn’t even the subject of an anti-Jewish video produced by our enemies! They don’t need to sabotage us – we do it ourselves.
Feh!
Observer, of we are “sabotaging” ourselves, it’s by allowing children to grow up in environs where racism is so acceptable, that even the semi-conscious “drunk” mind has it.
Observer,
Feh all you want but your attempt to distract from this shame fails. The video may be edited for effect, but it sure doesnt look like the racist garbage coming out of those childrens mouths was created with CGI or fancy cutting. If its so easy to show the world the sons and daughters of Abraham’s disgraceful behavior, how can we be any kind of example to the world?
Observer, you immediately lose all credibility in a thoughtful discussion as soon as you refer to the president as “B. Hussein Obama”. But that’s your choice.
As for those who sought to address my question, thank you. I don’t believe in moving away as a means of solving the problem, I was thinking maybe I just needed to stop seeing myself as an orthodox jew, partly as a means of protest, partly out of sheer disgust. But I think some of you have it right – I need to stick it out, stand up, and just be myself.
Thanks for the therapy 🙂
We, as a people, can’t allow the Israeli situation to turn us into monsters, or we become no better than those who oppressed us for centuries. That is why this video is important. Its time to look in the mirror and see what can become of our children.
“Jacob // Jun 15, 2009 at 9:17 pm
Observer, you immediately lose all credibility in a thoughtful discussion as soon as you refer to the president as “B. Hussein Obama”. But that’s your choice.”
Actually, Jake, what you’re trying to say is that YOU stop giving me credence as soon as I refer to BHO that way. Whatever your particular brand of idiocy (and I suspect that it is terminal PC), your failure to take BHO’s background, including his Muslim background, into account marks you as having a delusional outlook. Sorry about that. I’m sure you have some good qualities, as well, but you limit your potential by your blind spots.
Best wishes for straightening out your head.
Relevant link:
http://www.rantrave.com/Rant/The-Ugly-Sick-Racist-Video-of-Jews.aspx
“Observer”,
Ha! That was quite funny. Actually I meant exactly what I said, although I nevertheless appreciate your attempt to clarify what it was you thought I was “trying to say.”
But since my wording was somehow unclear to you, I’ll try and clarify. The key words I was using which you may have overlooked were “thoughtful discussion.” Credible participants in such an exchange would make straightforward claims based on fact about an individual under discussion rather than using uncustomary forms of their names (such as a first initial and then a full middle name) as a means of trying to establish some sort of link between them and, say, a religion they do not practice.
Hope that helps!
But one more word of advice. For the future, you may wish to be less presumptuous of those you wish to debate. It was also wrong for you to assume I haven’t taken Obama’s background into account. I actually happen to believe that any exposure Obama may have had as a child to other religions aside from Christianity a positive thing for one who hopes to change the course of our country’s relationship with the rest of the world. I’m truly sorry if I ever gave you the impression I thought otherwise.
Thank you for your kind words in which you state I must have “some good qualities” and your best wishes. That was sooo sweet of you … really! But if you meant to imply I’m somehow confused, I can assure you I’m not.
All the best,
“Jake”
what a complete chillul Hashem. Thanks for posting this and I am thoroughly disgusted at the way some of the other commentors are either minimizing their behavior, making excuses for it, or even endorsing it! How can you even bring yourselves to look in a mirror and face such a callous, soulless human being every day?
Actually, Yankel, you ARE confused, probably more so than most of the selected characters in the video. And they, at least, have the excuses of being both adolescent and drunk. But, as young as they are, they at least have a properly-functioning IFF, which you appear to lack. Perhaps I am mistaken about your lacking one. I certainly hope so.
Rishona,
I am not minimizing the words of the selected interviewed – I am leaving them in their proper perspective, and trying to help others gain that perspective. As for their behavior, I don’t see much – they seem to be peaceful drunks, which is better than the other kind, but still not good.
Some posters here seem to focus on a few racist remarks, and that is a mistake, period. I believe that in many (most?) cases, that misplaced focus assists in revealing other problems with the outlook of the individual who can’t see anything but racism when more important things are going on. I’m sure you are going apeshit to hear me say that there are more important things than apparently racist remarks by a couple of drunk adolescents, but the fact remains that there are. Why don’t you figure out a few, and list them for yourself? If you have no ideas, try watching the video again. The drunk kids mention one or two. Maybe ALL the sob sisters among the other posters here should try that exercise.
Discuss among yourselves.
Observer,
Unfortunately I feel that you unduly stereotyped my views. I will be the first person to say that being a racist is not a crime. I feel that the KKK, the Neo-Nazis, and the like have the right to believe what they believe and be proud about it. Mostly because if they get their rights infringed on because of their views, than I can get my rights infringed on for my, non-WASPy views. But these young adults are not the KKK, or Neo-Nazis. They are Jews. Jews who are obviously proud of their heritage, proud of Israel, and not ashamed to voice this. Sadly, they also are not ashamed of the example they are showing on behalf of their people. It has gone completely over their heads the sufferings of their forefathers and what it really means to be a G-d fearing Yid. It’s not even about being religious vs. being non-religious. All Jews have to think about who they are, and should feel compelled to take the higher ground. If you don’t agree with your political leaders; fine. You do not have to. But you DO need to make some sort of small effort to recognize the humanity in others, especially since for thousands of years, the Jews have been seen as less than human themselves.
As a Black person, I can understand trying to minimalize the gravity of this video. Every time Rev. Wright comes out in the news, I roll my eyes and think “Who cares? He doesn’t speak for Black Americans.” And he doesn’t. But try telling that to many Jews. Many truly feel that Black people sit at home, disparinging Jews, and plotting attacks on them (oh no, if you see one on the street…run, Forrest, RUN!). So I know better. Don’t think for a second, that it doesn’t work the other way around (and there are a LOT more non-Jews in America than there are Black people).
Hmm, Rishona, I would not have asked here, but why is there no way to register for your site to make comments, if you can’t leave them as a guest?
Oh, and after all this time, it’s still confusing to me why “they were drunk”, “it’s not a big deal” and “but they had a few good points” are seriously being used to defend this. I bet that there were a few pages of Mein Kampf with some good points about things, but I’m not defending that asshole either.
Before Phil misreads my comments (as usual) accuses me of calling these drunk morons Nazis, all I’m trying to say is that “good points” do not excuse racism, full stop.
I’m sorry, can someone clarify what an “IFF” is for me, since I’ve now been told I apparently lack one?
sergeantJ –
Go to the left hand side of the screen where it says “create an account”. That is how you register.
Rishona,
I do not disagree with you at all in any beliefs that you have expressed in your last post. I have been tempted to make some comments on “frum” racism on this thread, and I certainly have seen it in Crown Heights on at least one of the times I visited there. I will not repeat all of your points – you make them well and I agree with them. However, I still feel that on THIS video, an interviewer (who turns out to be hostile) asks questions about Obama’s recent anti-Israel speech, and gets a reasonable number of anti-Obama remarks, two or three of which are racist. The REMARKS are racist. Under the circumstances, I wouldn’t even be sure that the individuals making the remarks are racists, although I wouldn’t blame anyone for presuming so. Surely you have at least once heard a Black person refer to a legitimately-recognized White enemy by his race, even though you knew that that particular Black person was not generally anti-White. You have probably also heard both reasonable and unreasonable blanket descriptions of White people, knowing that even the reasonable ones didn’t apply to everyone.
But my problem with this thread is not the correctness of the concepts being discussed, but rather that we have been suckered into letting this video be a discussion of racism. The interview asked about Obama’s speech, and we end up beating ourselves to death about racism. Even with anti-Israel editing, the video still had only a couple of racist remarks. RACISM IS NOT WHAT THE VIDEO WAS ABOUT, AND ANYONE WHO MAKES IT THAT TELLS MORE ABOUT HIMSELF THAN ABOUT THOSE KIDS.
Jacob,
IFF is a radio-based system used primarily or only with airplanes for the purpose of Identification: Friend or Foe.
I am not a racist. I disagree with almost every one of the President’s policies. Truth be told, I heard around 4-5 racist comments on the video – the remainder of the remarks being comments about his political actions – bailouts, gun regulations, and so on. What can be more racist, though, than presuming that disagreement with Obama is racist? We did not accuse those who disagreed with Bush, Clinton, or Reagan of being racist/self-hating-whites (depending on their skin color.)
In 2000, I was campus coordinator for a remarkably unpopular African-American candidate in the primaries. In all our campaign literature, not once did we or any of our supporters make the absurd suggestion that opposing our candidate was racist.
Letting disagreement with the President become politically incorrect or racist is the recipe for tyranny. The Republicans tried the same thing by saying that disagreeing with Bush was treason. What happened to change?
To “Puzzled,”
Nobody I’m aware of has made a comment in this thread that equates disagreeing with Obama to racism. If I can speak for a moment on behalf of those of us outraged, the problems we all seem to have are specifically with the racist comments to which you referred.
To “Observer,”
Are you saying I might be a “foe” to the jewish people because I don’t think Obama is a muslim?
Please clarify. Thanks, “Yankel”
Disagreeing with the president should never be a crime. Calling him a “Stupid N**ger”, or (even in jest) screaming “WHITE POWER!!!” however, would set off any sane person’s IFF. Guess observer picked his u third hand from the boneyard (A place in AZ where the military stores hundreds of older, unused aircraft for spare parts, or possible regeneration and reuse as drones or for foreign sales)…
For me, putting up with racism would be like going to war knowing that the guys that are supposed to have my back are going to aim for it as soon as I move forward.
“To “Observer,”
Are you saying I might be a “foe” to the jewish people because I don’t think Obama is a muslim?
Please clarify. Thanks, “Yankel””
Yankel,
Not at all. I am saying that you seem to have an impaired ability to distinguish our friends from our foes.
Obs
Thanks Sergeant.
I acknowledged that there were a few racist comments on the video. I agree that racism is not a good thing. My concern is that someone might consider all the comments on the video to be bad and vile and things that shouldn’t be said, rather than just the racist comments. (Of course, I also would disagree with anyone who wants to ban hate speech like this, but I haven’t seen that suggested here.)
who cares?
boys will be boys..
and thus some will be obnoxious idiots who enjoy saying whatever they shouldn’t say…
Someone with the handle “not jewish” makes a perfectly sane post, one of the better ones in this thread.
Is there some logical connection between handle and content?
hmmm, I know…when I am driving poorly in my car that when I do something stupid like perhaps, forget to use my right turn signal – that I will be given the finger as being a dumb female driver. Now I am not always a poor driver but sometimes, I do get a little stupid. Do I think the person giving me the finger is a woman hater??? No…just that it is the easiest thing to categorize me as. Same with Obama…. am I a racist for disliking his policies??? Well, according to the media anyone who doesn’t agree with him is… but to me, he is just culturally muslim and governmentally fascist who surrounds himself with communists and terrorists. Nothing to do with his color at all… but it just highlights that he doesn’t share the same values as the center right country he supposedly represents. Woe be to the Jews… and Gd have mercy on those who voted for him… we are becoming the scapegoats again because of Geintner and Rahm and Summers and the other known jews on his administration. the anger is now on Rahm and his kooky brother. they are becoming the face of jews and that is dangerous as orthodox jews do not support obama’s agenda.