Tznius is truly a beautiful mitzvah, it’s one in which many women who aren’t even frum yet can shine in. It puts the bas yisroel on display for all to see how much yiras shamayim she has and it’s becoming increasing harder to do so. At every moment in our lives there is pritzus waiting to catch us in its snares, yet somehow, through the generations, we have upkept this timeless mitzvah. Unfortunately, many have gone astray due to lack of tznius and many of those who have gone astray feel the need to impose their negativity upon those who truly cherish tznius.
On erev shavuos, just before we were to accept the Torah many folks in Lakewood received a manual on being meticulous in their tznius observance. The manual went through dozens of simple stories and anecdotes about tznius. Some of the stories were so simple that plain folks couldn’t even understand them. Like the midnight diaper run by the wife who couldn’t drive and the husband who doesn’t go into shoprite. The husband is afraid of being on line while the snares of pritzus in the form of innocent looking magazines threatened him, the wife is so tznius she doesn’t drive – for fear her breasts will be revealed by keeping dina d’malchusei dina by wearing a seat belt. Many heimishe women drive without a seat belt, but this breaks the law of the land and many rabonom have allowed this only in a true emergency.
Just like there are those who decry the obvious step of internet filters and separate hours at the doctors office, there are those who decry the mitzvah of keeping chumros in tznius. Failed Messiah can’t stand that there are those who want to be extra scrupulous in anything, he merely placed photo copies of the manual on his site and his viscous readers tore everyone apart. They wish only to see frum Jews suffer, never can someone be cautious in mitzvos without being threatened by those who aren’t.
Unlike wearing a bag on a plane to stay away from tumah or burning dumpsters because you’re forced to contribute to the country you live in, tznius is a real and positive mitzvah. I just don’t understand how anyone could be against something which the gedolim support unanimously. There is not one holy person against tznius and there probably never will be, yet every time someone decides to be more tznius, there is a chorus of bloggers who need to rain on the parade.
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We should have a frumsatire tznius contest. Female readers can send in pictures of themselves being very tznius and we’ll vote on who is the most tznius.
Anyone that sends in a picture is automatically disqualified. I like it.
Particularly, contributors may consider sending pictures of themselves wearing tznius shells. I hear it is most tznius to just wear the shell and not an untznius jacket or something over it.
It’s OK to wear the shell on your head, though, as a modest tichel. Upcycle!
So turtles, tortoises, snails and clams should send in their modest selfies?
For modern tznius content
its the balance between being tznios and dress sexy at the same time, when a man says about a dress that “it`s nice”, he really means to say “it`s sexy”, nobody likes when his wife wears baggy clothing.
Tzinut/tznius begins and ends in the heart. A heart looking or even wanting what is not for God isn’t tzinizdik. The idea of passing what the heart needs to yearn for on to “flesh rules” just allows the heart to leave God and continue to be untzinisdik, while it dresses in taliban dresscodes , 40dinar stockings, and long black grab.
That is the simple truth.
Nowhere in the Tanach did God command or mention “you shall be heavily dressed”, the reason Adam and Eve got dressed was because of their embarrassment from there sin. Sin=embarrassed=get dressed.
The simple truth. The Torah tells us to gaze at the pair of mountains, Grezim and Ayval, and contemplate the choice of sinning or not sinning. When I see a hot chani with her seatbelt on, I think of those mountains. It’s religious.
The other truth, Jews believe in Original Sin, and all that stuff they teach in CCD — er, I mean NCSY.
“The Torah tells us to gaze at the pair of mountains, Grezim and Ayval, and contemplate the choice of sinning or not sinning.”
No way. I can’t look at two mountain peaks without seeing some humongous bazongas.
And that is how the Grand Tetons got their name, in fact.
Yer right: les trois tétons – The Three Breasts. But three-breasted women are a turn off for me so no problem gazing at the Grand Tetons.
lol
You can be buck nekkid and completely modest.
You can wear an abaya and be brazen and provocative.
For those who believe the mere sight of an ankle or collarbone will drive them into a frenzy of self-stimulation I give you the story of the two monks and the woman…
http://workingwithinsight.wordpress.com/2007/03/13/two-monks-and-a-woman-story/
Why bring the story about monks. We have the same thing in Gemoro its the concept of chossid shotoh, The Gemara admonishes a person who will not save a drowning woman because its not tzniyus, saying its stupid “righteousness”.
Wait, wasn’t that story in the New Testament? or was it about getting their tfillin wet?
The point is a little different.
To be a little more precise, the point in the original story is a Buddhist one (well, duh, A. Nuran!).
The monk who obeyed the rules was making an error in missing the whole reason for them. Lust and attachment were the problem. Yes, he had refrained from contact with a woman. But he had acted without compassion and had created an unhealthy mental attachment that persisted for quite a while.
The other monk did something that was legalistically questionable. But he had done so in a correct manner. He acted out of compassion. And when the moment was past he didn’t cling to it or spin fantasies about it. He went on with his proper business.
The way you tell the Jewish story it’s about the weight given to conflicting legal principles. The lesson is taught is that the more important legal principle is preservation of life. Under such circumstances there is an exception to the normal regular procedure of avoiding physical contact with the opposite gender. Lives over modesty.
I used to have to explain each time this came up that anyone who actually cared to keep the halachos of looking at women would never say that.
But now, I just get to cite this post where you all agreed: https://www.frumsatire.net/2013/01/29/shmiras-einayim-is-frum-masochism/
That Lakewood manual is insane, still can’t get past “The cost of publishing this booklet from start to finish went into many thousands of dollars.” I guess they wouldn’t appreciate our site https://www.facebook.com/StyleMeFrum lol
I checked out your site. Your right, they would not appreciate it because the styles on your Facebook are not tznius (i.e.) elbows and knees exposed.
I challenge anybody to show me one instance in tanach where men and women were subjected to the separation of genders of the type found in the frum world today.
Sure.
The men sang az yashir with Moshe, and then Miriam went with the women OUTSIDE the encampment and they sang there.
Dude, it’s like you’ve never even opened a chumash, and you put out these broad challenges.
The concept of separate davening also comes from the beis hamikdash.
Nope. They didn’t daven in the bais hamikdash. Try again. 🙂
BTW, No one cares that you called Tznius a mitzva?
Nor that actual statement in Micah 6:8 applies to behavior, not clothing.
No one can tell this is satire since it has all the inaccuracies that most frum publications have. Well done, Heshy.
They did have davening in the bais hamikdash, just not on its own.
Read and did not see it written “OUTSIDE the encampment”
? ????????? ??????? ??????????? ?????? ???????, ???-??????–?????????; ?????????? ???-?????????? ?????????, ?????????? ???????????. ?? ???????? ?????, ???????: ??????? ??????? ????-????? ??????, ???? ????????? ????? ??????.
It says “vateitzenah”, which means they left. What did they leave?
You are correct, I suppose I don’t know they left the encampment completely, but they certainly left the gathering to sing.
Also Miriam and the women dansed and sang their crappy song after the myth of splitting of the sea.
Read my post before you go ranking on me. I said show me where in tanach there is a separation of genders “of the type found in the frum community today.” I didn’t say the world was completely co-ed then, but show me where there is any evidence that 5 year old boys and girls were separated and that there wasn’t normal mingling that is shunned by the frum world today. Men and women sitting at separate tables at weddings?
Sure again.
Bachurim v’gam besulos; zekeinim im nearim
So Bachurim and also girls, old people with kids, everybody sat together at weddings! Well done.
It deliberately uses a different conjugation for the bachrum and besulos v. the old men and kids. That is, the bachurim are “in addition” to the besulos, while the old men are “with” the kids.
Look, if you are trying to convince me within my belief system, you need to use the rules of my belief system. Which include the rabbinic tradition, which makes the inference I noted.
If you look at my blog you will see that every single thing that the frummer do has a basis in the written or oral Torah, except for blotting out little girls faces. for example, Yehuda did not recognize Tamar because she covered her face. Since when does a harlot cover her face? But what it means is that she covered her face in her father in law’s house, and Yehuda did not know what she looked like. So as a direct result of this king David and Moshiach came from her. (Talmud)
Sota 10b, Meggila 10b, Makkos 23b.
That’s if you want to consider that interesting Midrash ‘Oral Torah’
I don’t get it. Are you like EFing around with the Talmud? Did you ever hear of the ‘sealing’ of the Talmud? Do all YU graduates F around with the Talmud?
When are you guys going to realize that you can’t even move without the Talmud. “And Yehuda thought she was a ‘zona’ because she covered her face”. A zona covers her face? How did you learn this till now? “And Yehuda admitted that she was pregnant from him”. how did Yehuda know that? Maybe she also did other people? How did you understand this till now?
Well yes, but presumably the point of this question was to convince us that these ideas should be considered innovation even within the rabbinic tradition. So you need to use the rules of the rabbinic tradition then.
If you aren’t, then you may as well say the whole torah is made up and then who cares.
But isn’t it? Talking snake and donkey….common bro
and the family members were split by gender according to Rashi on the ark.
whoever wrote this piece of garbage is a nut!!! i was highly offended by this pamphlet and it was wrong for the person to send it, and btw he sent it without any haskomos from any rabbonim and yes i am a typical frum kolel family, my husband of 22 years is still sitting and learning, but this is not the way to better ourselves!!!
If you are a typical kolel family why are you reading this drivel? (No offence Heshy – great post)
Welcome to the future. It’s not the Bronze Age anymore silly caveman.
I heard they wrote it in Matisyahu Solomons basement using his computer.
I hate to be the one who breaks the news to the “machers” who write questionable comments to this blog, but the concept of “tsnius” does not only apply to females, their appearance, and their style of dress; it also applies to males as well. And it is not limited to appearances but also involves behavior and mode of speech. ” Derech eretz kadma L’Torah.” The fact that almost all the posts are anonymous does not protect the sender from the knowledge of HaShem. He knows who you are! To HaShem, nobody is anonymous.
That’s right! Hashem knows when you are naughty and when you are nice. Santa tells him.
Men, if you are wearing your seatbelt in a way that accentuates your package, you are probably doing it wrong.
Tsnius apply to men too. We don’t need to see you with those awesomely handsome white-on-white shirts and those well trimmed beards with not even three or four crumbs lodged in them. Most importantly, stop wearing your hat on a tilt, it drives the women crazy when they see that.
The “viscous readers”? Are you saying his readers are thick or are they sticky?
I also noticed that one. Alas, as we know, spelling is not Heshy’s strong suit.
Darn! Nuran beat me to it.
I’m waiting to see one ‘serious’ post from you, say, every six months or so. It would offer a contrast, and a deeper cathartic release, upon reading your humor pieces.
I agree, an inherent sense of modesty is a beautiful things. Nor do I object to those who feel more comfortable going beyond the basic requirements set forth in halacha (knees, elbows, collar bones, avoiding snug clothes…). I do, however, object those who go above and beyond the basic requirements making negative comments about the morality / character of those who don’t follow their lead. Indeed, making derogatory assumptions about someone who doesn’t specifically meet the basic halachic standard is problematic for me. There are a wide variety of styles of secular dress, and not all of them are intended to be sexy or provocative. There are women in pant-suits with uncovered hair who are dressed in a professional, non-titillating manner. A nice girl in jeans and a t-shirt is not automatically a zonah, prutzah, or seeking male attention. Frummies simply assume far to much, and use an ayin ra all too often when it comes to divrei hitzoniut. That woman in the pant-suit with her hair uncovered may keep Shabbat and yumtiff, kashruth, niddah, the ethical laws, and enjoy learning Torah. Those things don’t require a uniform. Modestly is an inherent, subtle thing that should flow naturally and not be a formalized put-on or act of neurosis. In my opinion, tzniut has become pesel michah to the frum world the way every last grain “eretz yisroel” has become pesel micah to the ultra-Zionist camp in Israel. The torah has 613 commandments and many implied values found between the lines. Each is a part of an organic, holistic whole. When you take one and put it above others with statements like “tzniut is the foundation of a Jewish home” you are turning a mitzvah into an idol for people to worship to the detriment of the other commandments – and a healthy perspective. What if I though Shabbat, kashrut, niddah and torah learning were the cornerstone of my Jewish home? Hasvesholem! I guess my point is: tzniut is a beautiful and PERSONAL thing that has to be addressed by the individual as a part of their own authentic religious experience. A woman who feels uncomfortable with her ankles uncovered should cover them. A woman who feels perfectly at ease is a chanel skirt-suit that covers only her knees should wear it proudly without fretting whether or not she’s living up to someone else’s PERSONAL standards. And as for the otherwise observant woman who chooses to wear a professional pant-suit and not cover her hair? Maybe we should presume not to presume to much. Its entirely possible be 100% loyal to her husband while a woman who wears the uniform may fail in that regard. We don’t like to talk about it, but it does happen. An ayin tov is needed going both ways. After all, what do the tzniut police have to say about pictures of major rebbitzens in the early 20th century whose hair isn’t covered, or can be seen under their hats?
The most offensive sticker on a car I saw today on Ocean parkway. Mothers with short skirts shorten child’s life, 4 inches below knee is Torah law.
It was the most offensive of all the stickers you saw on cars, today, on Ocean Parkway? That’s a lot of qualifiers.
“Mothers with short skirts shorten child’s life.”
Typical chareidi sensitivity. Perhaps they should send this to the mothers of children with diseases like leukemia so they can transmit the message, “it’s your fault.”
I know. Ignorance like this is just typical of people who live a life based on Bronze Age philosophy. Magical thinking is destructive and holding back the human race.
love the look! It’s my “fantasy” to dress up Tznius and get on one of those web cam models sites to meet up with fun friends.
It’s very true that those who have gone astray feel the highest need to impose stringency on others