If we would stack up the small town outreach of the yeshivish community versus chabad we would all be laughing out loud, it’s quite pathetic really, mostly because chabadnicks do kiruv because the Rebbe told them to (they call it shlichus and hate the word kiruv) and yeshivish people do kiruv because it pays well and being a kiruv professional is a pretty good job if you want to stay in the yeshiva system. Chabad takes over small towns, while yeshivish people have only scratched the surface, going to places like Dallas, Denver and the Bay Area trying to “spread Jewish literacy” as the local kiruv folks like to call it.
When I first heard about SEED (nothing to do with masturbation I assure you) I was living in Albany, someone from one of the shuls happened to be a Ner Yisroel alumni and he basically got the program to come to the town – a little contention involved because some folks felt that if you needed a bunch of 19 year old yeshiva boys to bring torah to a town it implied that torah Jews didn’t exist in your town – I completely understand.
SEED is super interesting, you show up to shul one day to find 4 or 5 yeshiva guys standing there, davening for the amud and shuckling like madmen trying to outdo the other few frummies in the shul. These SEED Boys come to learn with folks b’chavrusa – I doubt they learn with the women – but I do know that it’s great marketing for the yeshiva system.
For instance, the people of San Jose think that every yeshiva guy is smart, courteous and well mannered. I find this extremely strange, since no one I ever knew who went to yeshiva really fit that description. Maybe Shar Hatorah boys are different (San Jose gets Shar Hatorah because the Rabbi learned there, Palo Alto gets Ner Boys because the Rabbis son learns there). I guess the boys are handpicked and probably not from New York.
If I were to hand pick boys for the SEED program, I would make sure they had good handshakes. The farther you get from New York the better the handshake, the firmer the grip and the nicer the greeting – well not really – Texans are nicer than Californians – but most of the people in California are from NY or Israel.
So, while chabad is off getting Jews to put on tefillin, shake a lulav or kasher their kitchens every Friday afternoon, the Yeshivish communities’ answer to out-of-town kiruv is to send a hand full of yeshivish guys to learn b’chavrusa with a few people from a shul – sounds like the Snags have a long way to go.
Oh and my facebook friend and fellow Rochester alumni Moty Raven tells me that the Winter Seed program is called WEED.
While googling the Summer Seed Program for pictures I found a yeshiva world news post that explains why chabad (despite the hours of criticism I could devote to them) will always be better than yeshivish people who will probably never take the kishke out of their trucheses of seriousness.
My town in proximity of two major metro areas yet separate has a stable Chabad but no other orthodox outreach. Occasionally somebody dressed in black and white will pass through during our minyan times as we are a midpoint between NYC and DC but nobody has ever though we were worth engaging in study.
SEED and WEED? for real?
Not only that but one of the most popular brands of cholov ysiroel milk is called “golden flow”
We get SEED boys here. As a woman, most of my exposure to them is at community events – not b’chavrusa, obviously. What strikes me is how so many of them seem to be afraid us – the natives – even if we are frum (ok, we keep Shabbos, kashrus, T.H., etc. but most of us don’t wear The Uniform). Not a good way to make inroads, IMNSHO.
Plus, the idea that Torah doesn’t exist in a community before the SEED boys visit? Let’s not even go there. That’s a step down from the perception that Torah doesn’t exist in a community until a Community Kollel gets there. Yeah. Tell that to Seattle and other communities who’ve been mission-ized by their various kollelim. The black hat crowd, in spite of what they may believe, does NOT have a patent on Torah learning.
I live in palo alto and I have learned with the seed boys, they are very impressive!
They are impressive – I didn’t say that – I said that I’m impressed that they can continually do their research correctly and get the best boys (I have a feeling that most of them are out of town types)
We’ve had several waves of SEED boys through Victoria, BC. They seem to be afraid the whole time that they’re here that they’ll catch frei germs. They work hard to separate themselves as they tote around their jugs of chalav Yisrael milk, and only travel in pods. Trying to get 5 friendly words out of any of them has become my mission, and I have yet to succeed. What is interesting is that we had a couple of Chabad Roving Rabbis through after the SEED boys, and they’re fun and upbeat. They want to get to know you, and you’re not made to feel like less of a Yid because you don’t live in the NY/5-Towns area.
Heshy, I don’t know where you got the idea that SEED is the mainstrem Orthodox answer to the kiruv necessity. SEED is a nice little program designed for the benefit of the town and the bochurim, as modest and as minimal as the actual kiruv ends up being – especially compared to Chabad, which is a full time, full scale missionary attack to make as many people Chabad as possible, before Ohr Someach or Aish gets to them and it’s too late.
Kiruv done by the mainstream is done through big seminars, shabbatons, and visiting speakers, events etc. Having the guys family live there, and calling his home a “kiruv house” doesn’t really appeal to them. (“Chabad house” is essentially the same thing, just sounding less intimidating with it’s disguise.)
And why do you say all non-Chabadskers in kiruv are into it for the position or money? Have you actually ever met any of them? I honestly can’t say that I know even ONE person who is decently involved and doesn’t mean it for real. It’s not something people can do if they aren’t genuinely interested. Maybe on SEED for a summer, but as an occupation? No-one would last if they didn’t really mean it.
“especially compared to Chabad, which is a full time, full scale missionary attack to make as many people Chabad as possible”
Your Milage May vary. Chabad here provides the only Orthodox environment available and I’ve never seen anyone encouraged to put on a black hat.
All because someone doesn’t wear a black hat, that doesn’t make him ‘not Chabad’. It just makes him ‘not yet doing all the Chabad minhagim’.
When I say they ‘make people Chabad’ I mean that they push the Chabad philosophy very strongly, and are attempting to make the person the start of a chain of a Chabad family. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, just call it what it is. They are selling ‘Chabad’ more than ‘Judaism’ (even though they will claim the two are one and the same), and will understandably consider it a failure if the person ends up being an orthodox Jew but not Chabad. Hence their concern when any other kiruv exists in the area.
I would like to reiterate, there is nothing wrong with what they’re doing, I have nothing against Chabad, I love Chabad, they are a wonderful group with some wonderful people, and I wish them the best in what they’re doing. My point is only to clarify the objectives of SEED as opposed to the general Chabad movement.
your full of shit yankel.
how many chabad rabbis do you actually know?
I’m sorry if you were offended by what I wrote, I was specifically not attacking Chabad, just calling a spade a spade.
Almost 100% of what I wrote in the above post was told to me by a Lubavitcher chavrusa of mine, and other Lubavitchers join once in a while, and they say the same things.
Rabbis – I’ll admit that I do indeed know very few. But you don’t need to know the rabbis to get a perspective of what’s going on.
I have Lubavitcher friends, I know and have spoken to plenty of knowledgeable Chabadskers at length, I’ve met a few shluchim, and I know from acquaintances of mine who have done kiruv in places where there was also Chabad present, I have read a ton of the Chabad seforim including letters and Mamarim from the last Rebbe, and I think I have a pretty good idea of the outlook of a Lubavitcher in certain areas.
Which thing above do you find inaccurate?
cmon hesh, i thought you would write something much funnier about the seed boys.
first of all most guys go to get a free summer in a mudne makom, not because they wanna be mekarev gants klal yisrael. second of all , the reviews ive heard from ppl who live in places wher seed has come (no pun intended) have been very positive. they told me it really was the first time they saw what a yeshiva bochur was and they enjoyed learning with them. also, many seed groups go with a couple, so the wife can interact with the women
The reviews are always positive, but I have to take the devils advocate route and compare them to the weekly hard driven lifelong kiruv done by chabad kids from an early age – not just some kids who take time out of their learning for a free trip to learn for 2 weeks with some already frum folks in an out of town location.
I really want to know how come we have a community kiruv kollel in the Bay Area, that doesn’t even have a weekly beis medrish or provide a chance for the baal habatim to learn with them.
Wow. Moty Raven.
Big shout out to you. You are the man.
You made it to the internets – on frumsatire no less!!!!
For those not in the know he is the funniest guy ever.
-Your anonymous mogen av buddy
awwwww shucks!!! thanks!!! i even posted with my real name to thank you, albeit if i posted with my normal name people would realise!…honestly though that was not a joke, R’ Baruch Davidowitz did WEED in arizona as a young bachur 🙂
btw heshy, the JSN actually does have beis midrash every Tuesday at emek beracha and rabbi feldman leads it so thanksully your wrong on that score
Although SEED boys don’t learn b’chavruta with women but they have SEED programs with girls too. Some of my friends (girls) have gone on SEED trips. Also the SEED boys who’ve come to our community have been really good–courteous and not afraid of people who are not religious or have different hashkafot.
In our far-away community, we have seen lots of SEED groups come through and have only been more and more impressed as the years have gone by. The boys are always courteous and smart and have been a fantastic influence on our kids. The summer “boost” to our synagogue is very much appreciated. So if any of the SEED guys and girls are reading this, Ignore the haters! You are the best!
Shout out to my Bro the Shaar Hatorah boy who went to San Jose!!!
They really do excellent work they had a good bye party for them and there were guys in the community who were crying…
As a side note, I dated a BT who was originally from the Dallas/Fort Worth area and he said his first exposure to authentic yiddishkeit was from the SEED boys.
I heard an interesting story about the influence a group of SEED guys had on the kids of a yeshivish rav leading a kiruv community in a Mid-Western city (lots of religiously serious guys who became religious in middle age). The rav’s kids apparently hadn’t been so sure about the black hat thing for exactly the reasons they frequently get criticized (the rav, who is a BT himself and extremely well educated as well as shtark in a good way doesn’t have any of that). He hosted some of the SEED guys at his home and they had a big influence on his kids. They were a great group of guys and apparently showed them that it’s possible to be black hat, normal (e.g., not socially retarded) and balanced.
Seed, TITS, what will they do next….beaver?
The way most of the towns members speak about SEED after the visit, is almost always VERY positive. However, we are not analyzing it from a perspective of truth here, this is a comedy website.
(see the comment above)
Your contrast between Chabad and SEED is on target. Isn’t it a shame that Chabad is a messianic death cult?
How nice of you.
Jealous, aren’t you?
Yeah man, why ‘death’ of all things?
Death?! :^O Are they doing something I don’t know about?!
We had SEED boys here, running a summer camp. Some observances based on my kids going to their camp.
1. As the kids were ready to go on a trip the Seed boys disappeared, they were looking for the closest payphone to change out of their Black and whites, to pastels.
2. As the local Rabbi pointed out they were not experienced camp counselors, they were not watching out for the kids in public places, luckily all the kids made it back from their outings.
3. The bickering between the Yeshivish kids and the Modern Orthodox kids in the SEED camp was not dealt with. It was a lost opportunity to show some achdus.
Chabad doesn’t do it because the Rebbe said so; a lot of Chabadniks do it because it’s a good living and comfortable lifestyle and rewarding work.
“Together with Rabbi Manis Friedman they developed a new philosophy for Lubavitch outreach. Where as previously Lubavitch was out to make new orthodox Jews and chassidim, now the chief purpose was to attract the newcomers to “Judaism Lite” and to insure continued contributions to the Chabad cause. The new phiosophy smacked more of Mordecai Kaplan than it did of lets say the Baal Shem Tov. In fact shlichus became a financially positive career as most shluchim were living well better than their brothers who remained behind in Crown Heights. In fact publicity and fundraising became the chief responsibility of many Chabad shluchim. And the aging Rebbe seemed unable or unwilling to deal with these new ideas.”
http://benatlas.com/2010/07/schneur-on-the-life-and-afterlife-of-menachem-mendel-schneerson/
Are you crazy? Shluchim live on 30 grand a yr with 6+ kids! That’s not comfortable living at all!
Facts are are merely an inconvenience to be disposed of when you’ve already made up your mind to hate something.
Dear Anonymous,
I like how you put that.
So true.
So many shluchim struggle just to put food on the table and have the basics, since most of them do not have another job and are not getting paid a salary. Many sacrifice so many of their comforts, of a stable job/income, living near family or even other frum jews, their childrens education, convenient kosher shopping and lots more just to fullfill what The Rebbe taught and wants, to bring other jews closer to yiddishkeit and spread Torah and Chassidus throughout the entire world.
I don’t think that any missionaries are exactly “in it for the money.” Such a charge kind of seems crazy. Anyone trying to make money off spreading the faith out in the field is SERIOUSLY in the wrong profession.
definitely depends on the community. i live in a middle class community where the local chabad family has a huge house which is being paid for by their relatives (easily traceable on the internet in the city’s tax records) and they live better than many in our community, especially in this economy. they get a lot of support from wealthy community members, have daily household help, new cars, etc. however, a chabad family i know doing shlichus in jerusalem lives extremely modestly and my guess is that they have much less financial support.
non-chabad frum people have the very wrong idea that there is a endless pool of money at lubavitch world headquarters, its wrong and many shlichim go out mainly to fulfill the late rebbes wishes without any personal reasons
Here in Boca the Chofeitz Chaim Seed boys come and learn with each other in the evening twice a week and then just go to the beach or whatever else vacation plans they have.
Learn with the Baal haBatim. Yeh if we quit our jobs we can learn with them after they have 8:30 breakfast in the shult for an hour. I think we have 1 home schooled boy who does that.
Is it that Chofeitz Chaim is that pathetic a yeshiva? At least it seems in the rest of the programs they at least try even though they do it badly
did i miss something? is the definition of satire grub,vulgar,language,disrespectful dissing of pure jews? for this you dont need brains-only an : other word for donkey in yiddish…
for shame-chodesh elul is approaching and this site encourages the low thought-process of a behaima..nebach on these lost souls….
Chabad <3