Hey Hesh,
Just wanted to tell you this great story I think you readers would get a kick out of that happened to me when I was in yeshiva. When I was learning in yeshiva, my parents friends kid was doing some sort of college program in my area and they wanted to him to meet with me for some possible learning or some sort of frum-frei influencing thing.
He was from a proper family, so I figured we would meet for dinner and I would make a fool of myself with my poor table manners, just to give you an idea I used to eat a piece of meat with two forks, so I went to this BT guy in the yeshiva and asked him to teach me how to use a knife and napkin.
We met for dinner at one of the local fleishig places and I decided to order the schnitzel because how hard could it be to eat schnitzel properly, right? This kid decides to order the schnitzel too and before I could even try and utilize my newly found table manners, he takes his fork and sticks it in the center and brings the entire piece to his mouth, like any regulkar yeshiva guy would do.
So I sort of have table manners, but I never really had to use them yet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96sG1StsrzY&feature=player_embedded
I was always under the impression that one needs to have table manners in order to get a good shidduch, and my father always stressed proper use of all eating utensils. Maybe its because I’m Mo. Big M, Little o.
It’s actually quite funny to watch frum girls eat – most of them have just as poor manners as the dudes.
Some people get so obsessed with their own version of table manners. Why do people get upset if I want to eat a doughnut with a knife and fork? I mean, I can understand people getting upset with those who eat like slobs, but some people also get upset if you use the wrong type of fork for the wrong course of the meal or if you eat stuff that’s supposedly “finger food” with a knife and fork.
Tell them to go fork themselves. Just tell them to fork off and mind their own forkin’ business. Motherforkers…
Over the centuries, manners evolved into a method of distinguishing the privileged classes from the lower ones. The point of many small things like proper fork, wine, smile, etc. is that it’s hard to figure out. People in the know, know.
My parents were both raised Orthodox. They have excellent table manners
Baby boomers or older, huh? (IMHO, one of the last frum generations that were widely versed in etiquette)
Older. My dad served in WWII. My mom is a few years younger. Most of what’s called “frum” today they think of as absolutely crazy. Even the “Black hats” from when they were kids weren’t anywhere near as extreme or insular.
And bad manners were a shameful thing in their generation and the one before. They marked you as ignorant, low-class and a bad reflection on Jews everywhere.
Is this enough?
1) chew with your mouth closed
2) don’t talk with food in your mouth
3) knife in right hand, fork in left while cutting. Elbows off table
4) napkin on lap- dab at corners when needed
5) in general at fancy meals- start with outer utensils and work
your way closer to the plate
6) sip don’t gulp- especially wine
just in case I have to eat something other than pizza and hamburgers, do I have it covered?
Pretty much. I’d add
1) Don’t reach in front of people. If you have to, ask them to pass whatever it is, instead.
2) Wait until everyone is served before eating.
3) Guests are served first.
4) If you’re really good at etiquette you can trade your salad for your neighbor’s dinner roll.
my bubby spent some time in england during ww2 (she was in the kindertransport) so she made sure my sisters and i had good table manners “in case we would get invited to eat at the buckingham palace.” but in yeshiva i would eat however i wanted, cutting up your chicken properly seems kind of weird when the guy next to you is wiping his mouth on the tablecloth.
From a Lebanese Grampa: (passionately) “You Americans use the fork for everything- fork, spear, shovel, knife, slated spoon for soup- In Lebanon, a fork was a fork!”
An old joke:
An Episcopalian died and went to Heaven. St. Peter was leading him past Purgatory where he saw some people who were in deep agony. So he asked, “Who are those people and what have they done to deserve this?”
St. Peter said, “Those are Jews, and they are guilty of eating pork.”
They went on and passed another group in worse shape, so the man asked who they were and what they had done. St. Peter said, “Those are Catholics, and they are guilty of eating meat on Fridays.”
They went on and found a group of people much more despondent than the other two, and so he asked, “Who are these people, and what have they done that was so bad?”
“Those are Episcopalians,” said St. Peter, “and they were caught eating ham with their salad forks.”
it ain’t just frummies with poor table manners. There is a certain class of hard-working, industrious, but uncultured non-Frum Jew, typically descended of blue-collar parents, who eat like animals, too.
At a Conservative Jewish wedding I once attended, I sat next to an unmarried brilliant computer scientist, father was a taxi driver, with his own successful company. His table manners made me sick to my stomach. Hunched over his food, no napkin in his lap, wiping his mouth on his sleeve, moving food into his mouth with the efficiency of a steam shovel, chewing with his mouth open, talking with his mouth full, spilling food from the edge of his plate onto the table and eating that with his fingers.
I almost vomited at the sight of it all. I have no doubt his parents drilled into him the Jewish ethos of studying hard in school and earning a good living. But they didn’t know from table manners themselves, so they could not impart those to their son.