With the Off The Derech community growing at such a rapid pace, the Rabbonom who set community hashkafa have been unable to keep up. Splinter groups keep forming and I think they’ve reached a critical point, just last week, several of what some consider the gedolei ha’otd sat down for an impromtu discussion in order to figure out who is actually OTD. One of the biggest issues is that the OTD community centers around people who actually care about their former lives, those who’ve struggled in the real world, and many who have had to give up their entire lives in order to eat bacon, have illicit sex, and go to the library.
Should those who’ve merely taken off their yarmulke at college and hung out at Friday night frat parties be allowed to label themselves as Off The Derech?
Apparently it’s not such an easy question to answer. Amongst the OTD gedolim there are folks just learning to speak English with little more than a second grade education all the way to folks who’ve seen goyim first hand in the army and have gotten doctorates outside of the Touro or BTL system. It’s kind of like the supreme court in many ways. Unfortunately, the on the derech community is so charged in their anti-OTD propaganda that they usually paint them all as atheist, liberal, heathens, who’s only interest is to undermine the Baal Teshuva movement which is apparently replenishing those we lose to the OTDers. Just looking at who the OTD world considers to be their gedolim is an example that it is a diverse community and some of those gedolim still consider themselves culturally frum.
This may be one of the reasons why many in the OTD community don’t consider those who grew up Modern Orthodox to be one of their own. “When you grow up Chassidish or very Yeshivish, you already consider Modern Orthodoxy to be not frum” according to most OTD folks we interviewed. How can those who grew up with the freedoms that many have struggled to gain through sacrifice, be allowed to join the real OTD community?
And so the debate rages…
Others have pondered whether it was appropriate for converts and BT’s to be allowed in the club. Apparently, everyone is jumping on the OTD bandwagon and in the future it will be just like the frum community with varying levels of observance. There are OTDers that wash motzi for their big macs and use their old tefillin in sexual escapades. Maybe that’s why you don’t see too many pairs of tefillin on Ebay yet.
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oh man, the rav tshirt is badass.
The conference of OTD gedoilim was labeled Vaad Arbah Aratzos, so that every time some Agudah talking head mentions the Vaad and some ignorant Agudah follower Googles it, they’ll be subjected to kefirah.
Well, I think you can compromise and have one group for *really* OTD people who grew up speaking Yiddish and who managed to either come out as gay or who learned to write English properly. They can be known as FOTD (f for frei). While MOs who wouldn’t recognize a grammatically correct Yiddish sentence if it hit them over the head and who wear shorts and crap like that can just be plan old OTD.
OTD BTs don’t get to play — you’ve already let them into one club, there is no need to keep supporting them emotionally in this way.
I’m OTDFB (and kind of BT), so I never really know if I count.
So, what is a geir tzeddek who converted Hassidic, spent twenty years in the hareidi world, ten of that in Israel in kollelim, speaks fluent Hebrew, can ace the rabbinate semichah tests, did a siyum on both talmuds with a dozen major commentators, is conversant in Hassidic discourses and the machshava of R’ Soloveitchik and R’ Berkovitz, and then hit a wall and decided, as much as he loves the lashon and lomdut and tarbut, that had zero desire left to be “of the frum” because the frumma had simply beaten the desire out of him?
This was, incidentally, a serious question. After 20 years, I have no longer have an idea where I stand in relation to the Jewish people. And yet, my conversion was for all the right reasons and was, by orthodox standards, unassailable. The beit din included highly respected rabbis (who will remain nameless so as not to embarrass them with my “failure”). In Jewish halls I have always been — no matter how learned or pious or frum-assimilated I became — “that goy.” In the goyishe world, even though I have essentially left, I am “that Jew.” I’m not sure whose derekh I’m on or off at this point. But then, the frum-velt doesn’t provide a home for converts, and doesn’t want to. See Tosafot who fatalistically explain that converts bring trouble to the Jewish people because the Jewish people will inevitably fall short in treating them as the Torah expects. I wish I had read that 21 years ago.
That’s really sad, David.
“After 20 years, I have no longer have an idea where I stand in relation to the Jewish people. And yet, my conversion was for all the right reasons and was, by orthodox standards, unassailable.”
I relate. For me it’s been 25 years since I made giyur. Today I see so many idealistic young conversion candidates dreaming of living as Jews and wonder why nobody tells them they will never live as Jews, but be stuck in the limbo of ger-dom forever.
And yes, people still talk about canceling my conversion if they have a bone to pick with me.
Same thing for BT. But, now I’ve realized as an OTD BT that who wants to live like a bunch of religious fanatics anyways? The laws are all man-made and so is the Toyrah.
I know I’m necroing an old post but this. This right here.
You cannot simply fit in if you are a BT or a convert. It’s just not gonna happen, end of story.
On a serious note, I jsut think that us MO type OTDers aren’t so much part of the OTD community as a whole because we don’t need the communal support that comes from being among our own. This is because we already speak perfect english, know all about pop culture, know how to dress normally, etc. Basically we can just blend in to normal society easier than those from chassidish/yeshivish backgrounds. This makes us not need a community as much, thus preventing us from joining/forming one.
For example, all of my current friends are my college friends from NYU. I have a great crowd and don’t feel left out or isolated that I need other kids who were raised orthodox to hang out with. Although a few of my friends are jewish, they are those irreligious LI types. (Who else goes to NYU???? lol)
the same thing exists at every ivy or similar school that gets tons of the MO_Lib type kids from ramaz, frish, etc- who maybe did 1 year at brovenders/male equivalent in israel- and go to college and start wearing pants- going out fri night etc. there is very little to distinguish them from standard secular kids- so i would have to agree with you on that one…
You’re only OTD if you’ve been call that disparagingly by others. It’s not a title that you get to bestow upon yourself. Part of the problem for the “on the derech” community is that OTD-ers have adopted the title as a sort of badge of honor – not unlike the “pirates” of the movie file sharing world who think of the word in the Pirates of the Caribbean sense.