While spending shabbos in Washington Heights several weeks ago, the residents were in the process of trying to find a new Rabbi for the shul. On Friday night the shul organized an Oneg Shabbat question and answer session with the prospective Rabbi, it wasn’t interesting until the topic of women’s participation in communal and synagogue life came up. The silence and snickers and small conversations between the questions could be felt by everyone. The prospective Rabbi was not really for the hiring a Yoetzet Halacha, and I myself had no idea what that was.
A Yoetzet Halacha is a full time women’s halachic advisor, someone to advise women in questions and issues that they would otherwise feel uncomfortable discussing with a male Rabbi. Upon learning what exactly a Yoetzet Halacha was, I immediately wondered why this prospective rabbi would appear flustered or even against the option of helping women talk about their issues in a more comfortable environment. There isn’t much literature on the subject; I did find one article and a response letter both in the Five Towns Jewish Times.
The initial article, titled Rave Reviews for Manhattan Yoatzot Halacha Program, is basically explaining which congregations in the New York had hired these women’s halachic advisors and how the Rabbis were thrilled to have them along. I should note that according to Nishmat (which is one of the only programs I could find that certifies Yoetzet Halachot) it is quite hard to get certified and according to some friends that attended their other women’s study programs they are very “frum.”
The response letter, titled We Do Not Need Yoatzot Halacha, was a different story. Written by Rabbi Yaakov Feitman, it is an angry argument against such a wonderful program which he says was “conceived out of concern and kindness” which he believes is “an insidious incursion into our time-honored mesorah.” Which is always and in this case as well, followed by some sort of claim that anything that allows women to leave the kitchen for the study hall to be evil and breaking down our morals.
Feitman goes on to make what I could only call a fool of himself with the following paragraph:
“Here is an irony to the “creation” (their word) of a yoetzet at this stage of Jewish history. In ancient times, women were in fact very private people, rarely venturing forth into any kind of public venue. Many halachos, in areas such as tzedakah, inheritance, and business law took this fact into consideration. Yet, women were comfortable asking a she’eilah of their rav or sending their husbands. Today, when women are full members of every area of commerce and society, when they travel the world and are elected to the highest positions in government, it seems a bit incongruous to belatedly claim discomfort with a man. A rav is as much a professional as a physician or attorney, and conducts himself with discretion and consideration. One cannot help but detect an influence of modern feminism and societal pressure rather than a true problem in the comfort level of 21st-century Jewish women.”
My first reaction was that Rabbi Feitman is full of crap. He fails to note that many women new to orthodoxy may not feel comfortable talking about such personal issues as Taharat Mishpacha (family purity) with a man she hardly knows. Besides, talking to a Rabbi whom you may see every week can make things a bit awkward. Just because women feel comfortable with society doesn’t mean they talk about sexual issues with everyone they meet. Who is Feitman fooling?
I would like to ask Rabbi Feitman if he ever thought about the women who may now ask questions that they never felt comfortable asking before, allowing them to observe the laws on a better level. I would also like to now, how the ultraorthodox community can tell women to be so modest their whole lives and once they get married to just feel comfortable talking about these detailed issues with a stranger?
Cross posted on Jewcy.com
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I’m not a big fan of the whole yoetzet thing. My main issue is it’s just a small step away from having women as Rabbis, and I think we should leave that to the reform crowd.
I think having a woman as a go-between is fine – you’re embarrassed? No problem, here’s a woman who will take your things and go to a Rav with them for you, so that you don’t have to.
As for saying a Rav is just as professional as a doctor: many women are uncomfortable with a male doctor (especially an OB/GYN) and will only use female doctors. Taharas hamishpacha is a sensitive thing, and I can see why women would be embarrassed about it.
All I have to say is that the picture reminded me of those college brochures where the students are philosophizing in the meadows. Only this time they’re all religious Jewish women.
My Rebbitzin is in hospice and cannot be available to answer these sensitive questions, anymore.
I would love to have a Yoetzet Halacha so that I won’t have to ask my bold friend Gittel to ask my Rabbi about the bizarre looking stains on my cloth. (I give her gloves, duh.)
I’d rather just wait it out and not ask, but my husband insists. (GRIN)
You definitely picked the right paragraph from R. Feitman’s self-destructing critique; good eye.
It was the most violent of them all – I understand the fears of women rabbis but do you think it would really happen in yeshivish shuls
Rochel-
Why doesn’t your DH take it to the Rav???? Who needs Gittel?
FS-
R’ Feitman’s point is that women should be comfortable going to their Rav with all of their questions. My wife is. The goal is to address whatever is making them uncomfortable and make sure that that changes, not change the whole model! If you’re not happy with your Rav, change your Rav, not Judaism.
God forbid we have women in positions of religious authority and decision-making. What’s next? Mixed dancing?
I just don’t think there is anything to change – I don’t think you can do anything to make some women comfortable with talking to a man about such issues.
It has probably been like this for centuries, but only now are people progressive enough to think outside of the time honored mesorah which doesn’t cut it for everyone.
Just because you are making it comfortable for women to seek halachic advisement from a woman doesn’t mean you are diminishing the tole of the Rav – beside there are still countless women who will never talk to a man about such issues.
FS-
So what your saying is that for the last 3300+ years these poor women have never had their questions answered? Is this all women? Some women? Only in certain countries? Cities?
In that case I guess you’re right. You convinced me, I change my vote.
I think that rav better brush up on his tanach- what about tamar? she was sneut and people (not just women but people) came to speak with her. I think that rav is giving in to social pressures about how women cannont leave their homes for fear of their children going off the derech.
Thinking,
Historically, we all know that Jewish women have developed something of a name for themselves in the yenta department. That being said, a lot of the times (especially younger women and women new to observant Judaism, which I can vouch for from both perspectives) are much, much more comfortable speaking with women. It’s a fairly simple concept seeing as how women deal with some very intimate issues. Even in shul, instead of seeing these women wait and talk to the rabbi about something they will ask a few of the women that they know for advice. While I don’t see any disastrous problems with this, I do see the benefits of having someone that is considerably more knowledgeable about these subjects from a halachic perspective and not just what they have experienced or even heard of.
The potential for better, more inclusive, and more thorough guidance should never be looked down upon. These well intentioned people are only seeking to fulfill the mitzvot on a deeper level, things they may never know hearing advice through the grapevine.
I our big frummy community, we have a woman that was “certified” by the rabbis to deal with taharas hamishpacha issues. She is quite experienced and happens to be a midwife too. Lot’s of women are more comfortable going to a woman, she’ll even show them how to check or check them herself.
Indeed–although I was not raised with a speck of religiosity beyond Channukah and bread at the seder, I never, before I was religious, allowed a man or even another woman to see underwear with old period stains, let alone with fresh blood. There is a difference between showing the world what I can do in the workplace and showing the world any discharge from down under.
Let’s face it, the Jewish literature on which we base our religion was written by men, for men. Any woman who wants a place in the orthodox world has to either shut up and accept it or start her own strain.
Just like how every uninvolved goy in the world has his unswerving opinion about the state of Israel, every Jew has an opinion about everything, whether it’s his business or not.
R Feitman is looking at the downside of women not going to the rav to ask shailos. Over time women will stop going to the Rav at all and consider the yoetzet to be a rav for everything. We need to find a way for women to become more comfortable speaking with a rav (training for rabbonim might be one).
As a male couples and family therapist for 7+ years I have had frum women tell me everything from personal molestation, abuse, incest and infidelity to their greatest fears. The notion that women cannot or will not open up to a male is 100% false. Are there certain women who will not open up to certain men? Absolutely, those women need to find a qualified rav that they can open up to.
I personally know many rabbonim who deal with all kinds of extremely personal and private questions from women. Is it that these women are not as sensitive? Are these rabbonim more sensitive? These are the questions to look at, not changing the model. Look at what has worked and follow that, don’t look at what hasn’t and assume there is a need for wholesale change.
There is a body of thought that says that a person who was repressed will be more likely to self repress. I remember reading stories when I was young about this and that in the European Jewish existence. I had this romanticized view of it; then I grew up and heard of all the other stuff… the killings the expulsions the abject poverty in some countries. And I can not help but feel that there might be people who look at the “old days” and say “this is how it should be” holding a romanticized view of the past (in the countries where there was abject poverty), when in fact that was just the expression of the Jewish culture during persecution and poverty. A point of fact is that a romanticized version of history is something everyone is susceptible to.
Besides who said that women did not talk to other women about “whatever-this-article-is-about?” If they did not answer the questions themselves then perhaps they relayed the question to the rabanit who asked her husband?
This makes some to me. I wouldnt feel comfortable asking a female rabbi certain things any more than I feel comfortable with a woman doctor about certain things. I just discussed this post with my wife and she agrees. A member of the opposite gender can be well educated and trained to deal with things but a person still may feel more at ease discussing some things with a person of the same gender.
Maybe both views are right, but it seems to me that a Jew, male or female, should have good access to answers to hallachic questions.
It’s not just women who are new to frumkeit who might be uncomfortable talking to a man about personal matters. Personally, I feel that when rabbis oppose yoatzot halacha, they are just feeling insecure in their role as rabbi. Yoatzot halacha do not paskin and always function under the authority of a rav. (Much like a Physician’s Assistant)
I think YH’s are great and contemplate going on to become one in the future.
dear thinking-
it is wonderful that you have women who are able to open up and share some of their most private and difficult experiences with you- yes– proof that women can and will discuss such matters with men.
however, i ask you to consider– what about those women who will not- under any circumstances- be able to discuss such things with a man? it is unfair to compare them to others who are willing and/or able to do so.
i find it surprising, that you, as a therapist, do not see the value of women to provide halachic advisement to other women (not men), if it is in the best interest of their emotional health.
All I have to say is thank God I’m not a woman – that comment about underwear was enough for me
But you don’t see your therapist in shul or at the pizza store
The Feitman concept of being true to the Torah sounds like a good idea. Rabbis are not mentioned in the Torah. In the spirit of being true to the most ancient of our traditions, they should all retire (effective immediately.)
Just found Dov Bears post on the subject with 114 comments arguing it out
http://dovbear.blogspot.com/2009/03/mind-boggling-post.html
Just following the posts on this topic–and Dovbear’s 2009 post seems to be gone. Do you have it somewhere? He still has his post about your post, but not the one that he posted on his own earlier.
your connection is really slow with this new format.
I wonder what R’ Feitman would say to Devorah the Judgess? How does he think she got to be a prophet and a judge? It likely wasn’t because she was the only Jewish woman in the entire land of Israel to know anything about Halacha or Barak probably would have made much more of a fuss than R’ Feitman.
I was downstairs at the Sephardic Minyon. I’m not Sephardic.
I look at it this way: Would a (normal) man want to discuss his sexual life with a women rabbi? I submit not. The same is true vice-versa. End of discussion.
The problem is that there isn’t any reason we don’t have female rabbis other than it hasn’t been done.
Now, we might want to not have female pulpit rabbis to distinguish orthodoxy from everything else, but what’s a rabbi nowadays? It isn’t smicha from Moshe. It’s a heter hora’ah.
I would argue that since Yoetzet isn’t a public figure, but rather a private one, there’s no loss of personal privacy for the Yoetzet – and a huge gain in kavod habriyut for the person asking the shaila. , everyone ought to be okay with it.
Except not everyone is okay with it, because they have something against women doing psak. Now that’s a bias that we can do away with.
This method would permit women to go to dedicated sources of answers and get a reply quickly, probably faster then going to a rav. If she is permitted, then why should the couple be forced to postpone an expression of their mutual affection. It seems like a no brainer.
I know of one Rabbi that accepts questions about taharat hamishpacha via an anonymous email service. Of course he can’t examine their underwear or their hefsek tahara cloth that way, but he surely can teach them how to examine it themselves.
I just find it odd that most frum women attend “Kallah classes” taught by a women, prior to getting married. It just seems counter-intuitive that post-wedding that same woman must pose her questions to a man.
I have found myself sharing many personal issues with my Rabbi, but I understand that this might introduce a level of discomfort. Moreover, I would venture to guess that in the past the women would pass their questions on to the Rav though their husbands.
There is nothing wrong with a yoetzet.I will not venture to say R’Feitman is wrong because he is way out of my league. However I would say that he is simply misinformed. I think he thinks a Yoetzet is a Female Rabbi or at the very least a rabinical assistant poskening shaylos in a specialized area, this he believes will lead to woman taking pulpit positions(vis. an argument “If this is not wrong this should be not wrong either”).All a yoetzet is a messenger a women who has the balls to ask a rav a question other women might not feel comfortable asking.I would think R’Fietman would not have a problem with a mikvah lady.
If the Rabbi’s wife is called the Rebitzin, what do you call the Rabbi’s husband?
R’ Feitman is living in a bubble. Does he think that everything has remained the same in the past 500 years? Is he opposed to educating women, since that too was not done 500 years ago? Is he opposed to women working outside of the home because that wasnt done 500 years ago?
Unfortunately, the system IS broken, and if he chooses to ignore that, then he is shirking his responsibility as a communal leader. The women that DO go to rabbis for niddah questions are NOT the reason that yoatzot are trained. They are trained to deal with the thousands of women that DON’T ask rabbis niddah questions. Either they are machmir and unnecessarily suffer or remain niddah longer than necessary. Or they just ignore the halacha b/c they will not approach a man.
The comparison to a dr. is comparable but not completely – MANY women will NOT go to a male doctor b/c they are uncomfortable. How many men will go to a female urologist???? If women are unwilling to speak to a man about something so personal, desspite his “professionalism”, then it is CRITICAL to train a woman to answer niddah questions. Of the MANY yoatzot that I knwo, NOT ONE has any “rabbinic aspirations”. They are doing a tremendous service for klal yisrael.
(sorry for the caps, but i feel like screaming at this guy)
The empirical evidence (which is easily corroborated by rabbis and yoatzot in communities that have them) is that women in communities with yoatzot are asking more niddah shailos than they used to (when they should’ve been asking to the rabbi). Whether this how it ‘ought’ to be seems irrelevent to me…the reality is that yoatzot are promoting increased shmiras hamitzvos. Who is against that?