By now, unless you’re living under a rock you’ve probably seen the NY Post interview with a young Satmar woman telling her story about growing up and then leaving the path. The article is a good glimpse into Satmar-Willi from someone who left, but doesn’t provide much new to add to the constant debate over whether the Chassidim have become too extreme in their faith. The 88 comments on Facebook did tell me a few things, defenders of the faith are extremely ignorant about what goes on in Chassidic communities and those against Chassidism also know nothing about what goes on in Chassidic communities.
Can outsiders ever really understand what goes on?
I guess I don’t know all that much about what goes on inside chassidishe communities.
So I read that article, and now requested my school purchase the book and reserve it for me, which they will. I’ll reserve my full comments for after they read the book, but I do have this comment from just reading the NY post article:
The article really doesn’t say anything all that bad about chassidim. It doesn’t say that she ever felt like she was abused as a woman by the males in her life. It doesn’t say that she was emotionally or otherwise abused by anyone- although there is a reference to some sxual abuse of someone else. It doesn’t say that she was taught anything bad like that you can cheat or steal- just regular shtetl mentality about the secular authorities.
All in all, I’m feeling pretty proud to be frum after reading that article. While I’m glad she found what works for her.
Yeah I’m seen interviews with her. I wouldn’t feel so chipper about it.
With that said, she obviously had a book agenda so…
But still, I don’t know why anyone would really want to leave Chassidism. I am Lubavitch, which I know DEFINITELY isn’t Satmar, but I know some Satmarers, and they are alright people, at least the ones I know, and judging from what the girls I’ve talked to have said, it isn’t really that bad, at least compared to Neturei Karta and the other Charedishe communities.
> it isn’t really that bad, at least compared to Neturei Karta and the other Charedishe communities
Just because B is worse than A doesn’t mean that A isn’t pretty bad.
Having your arm broken isn’t really that bad, at least compared to having it cut off or losing other limbs.
Dude, I’ve met my share of people who have left Chabadism. Just open your eyes, there’s always people who want to “leave the fold”. I abandoned Modern Orthodoxy, which is a lot dryer and less exciting than Chabadism (IMHO). But even so, I’d never become Chabad (personal reasons).
I think you made the right move.Modern Orthodoxy is the ultimate oxymoron. This convenient pigeon hole is a way for those who want an observant “image’ and yet not have it conflict with their life style. MO is the epitome of shallow nonsense.
All Chassidim =/ any particular community. Also, certain sects have changed over the years… Chances are though, if a girl is talking to you, she isn’t really an “insider” unless she is OTD.
She’s not OTD, she was Satmar, but she made the decision to become Lubavitch.
Well… Honestly, maybe not OTD in my or your terms exactly, but I’m sure people in the Satmar community might disagree. Not to say they are all like Feldman describes either… She admits her family was pretty messed up in ways that don’t necessarily reflect on Satmar chassidim as a whole.
http://thebeaconmag.com/2011/10/opinions/chassidism-the-truth/
a similar piece written…. http://thebeaconmag.com/2011/10/opinions/chassidism-the-truth/
“defenders of the faith are extremely ignorant about what goes on in Chassidic communities and those against Chassidism also know nothing about what goes on in Chassidic communities.”
That is such a wise comment, Heshy. I came to the same conclusion myself. How about you, though? Do you know what goes on inside?
It is just annoyingly general to me. The term “chassidic communities” sounds as if there is even some sort of comradely between the groups that would have them grouped together besides for the fact people think they are all extremists in funny clothing. oy vey.
I am responsible for a few of these 88 comments you speak of and I grew up in a chassidic community and household. I left it to pursue my own path and I am quite aware what goes on there. Calling people who know more about you “ignorant” is the epitome of ignorance.
As you may have noticed I never said I knew anything about the community, sure I have some fans who are Satmar and I’ve hung out with some folks in Willi, but I’ll never know much.
edit: “About you” replace with “about it”
Do you have a link to the Facebook page with the 88 comments? I presume you are not referring to the New York Post FB page.
no – my own facebook wall
The BIG question is,would major publishing firms write about successful secular people whom return to their roots? and sadly the answer is NO I am usually a fan of the NY POST but this hatchet job pissed me off.
Also she kind of messes things up for her self by writing this book, she can never make up, for certain lies she put in it, she may very well be sued by her ex’s family etc.
Meheicha teisi there are lies put in? I assume she was more or less honest.
Actually, the answer is yes. Read From Central Park to Sinai.
How does she justify not establishing full joint custody for her son? Whatever journey she is going through, it is sick that she is being so unfair to her ex-husband. Disgusting. And for the record, I am a woman.
I agree. The child deserves a father, not a vindictive mother who hangs all her dirty laundry out in public.
The child deserves a father who will force the child to live exactly like the father . Arrange his marriage , teach that women are objects which men loathe , but can never have until there married (which by the way , the men then don’t know what to do with them). Really ?
I would say no father is better then a father who enslaves the child.
Did you know that “velvel belkin” has the same gematria as “moron”? Try it. It really works!!!
Did you know that guest/anonymous is gematria , coward and afraid to have a internet name which forces them to be consistent?
Did you know that “guest” has the same gematria as “anonymous credulous idiot who believes in numerical superstitions”? Try it – it really works.
What I have never understood is why don’t people who want to stop being Chasidic just become Modern or Centrist Orthodox?
Why do they have to give up a Jewish life totally and eat crab cakes?
David- I was thinking the exact same thing. I believe the answer is twofold. One, they are so scared by their ordeals within the Chasidic community that they associate any kind of religious observance with the Chasidic lifestyle. Second, I think it’s an outgrowth of where they are coming from in that the Chasidic world considers these other forms of Judaism as invalid as non-observance so they may as well be non-observant and not have their lives complicated with religious practice.
Another reason may be because they don’t learn the differences between a halacha, chumra or a minhag that they do in their community. They are tought ” this is what you do”. If they are not a part of what the community that they grew up with does they are not a good jew. I assume that for them giving up a chumra can cause the same type of sense of alienation from religion as an MO person breaking shabbos or eating a cheeseburger may feel.
Its stuff like this that validates my choice…Reform rules!!!
Your choice? Tell us more about your choice.
Most people don’t “choose” reform. They are just raised by parents who are loosely affiliated with reform, so they call themselves reform.
Come visit our congregation sometime, Dan. You’ll find a great many people who “chose” Reform, some of whom grew up affiliated with other branches of Judaism and some who weren’t Jewish to begin with. And am I reading your comment correctly? You’re actually asserting that everyone who’s Reform is “loosely affiliated?” You’re quite mistaken, if so.
Most people don’t “choose” to be orthodox/charedi/evangelical christian/satmar chussid/muslim. They are just raised by parents who are orthodox/charedi/evangelical christian/satmar chussid/muslim, so they end up being orthodox/charedi/evangelical christian/satmar chussid/muslim.
Of course. I agree to that as well.
david- I can not agree more with u!!! u are so right!! there are so many levels of judaism….u dont like chassidish…then become modern…modern orthodox…but why go on every media outlet possible? fame whore…cashing in on her 5 minutes..
I was raised chassidish and know very well what goes on on there. The interview in the post is mostly lies. Deborah has sex issues and body image issues as well as low self esteem. what she really needs is a good shrink.
what will happen to her when all the hype and attention regarding the book will die down?….what a loser…
She didnt trash chassidim- she trashed Taharas Hamishpacha (mikva, nidda…) this is one of the 3 foundational values of our religion. Shababbos, Kashrus, Taharas Hamishpacha.
No one is trapped in williamsburg. she could have left when ever she wanted and she did leave….but why the hell is she not leaving willi and her family alone??? if she hates chassidim so much- then why does she keep posting videos of them on her web and speaking about them…it would stand to reason that she would run far away and stay away….
she says on the simon and shuster website – that she will feel uncomfortable for her son to read such intimate details…what about having some self respect and feeling uncomfortable with sharing distorted intimate details with the world???
and all my willi friends want to know “who wears a nightgown??!!!” she felt fat – and i see why- so she kept the lights closed and wore a fu&%$g night gown!!! sorry to burst anyone’s bubble- amongst all my chassidish friends we have a darn good bedroom life- each with our own spouse of course!
She grew up in a dysfunctional house and now wants to blame/ defame chassidim, judaism, halacha…Torah…
she says in the article she has a kardashianesque body…..who the hell is she kidding??? they should sue her for defamation!!!! she is chubby- thats all.
the only thing she has in common with the kardashians is that they are both fame whores and kim released a sex tape and deborah released a ugly, self hating, anti semitic book of lies….
its clear that she did not write or publish the book alone…with all the media attention…..her mom probably helped her and financially supported her….
and- contrary to what she says or feels- being beautiful does not depend on the way you dress or amount of cleavage you show..
in my “chassidish” modest clothes- (covered knees, elbow, neckline) i was scouted 3 seperate times by 3 of the top NY modeling agencies.
I went with a couple of “chassidsh” friends to check it out…we did some head shots and several weeks later i recieved a call that they wanted me for a hair commercial…i turned it down- as i CHOSE (not because I felt trapped) not to pursue that career or lifestyle since it goes against my own beliefs about women being modest.
david- I can not agree more with u!!! u are so right!!
I was raised chassidish and know very well what goes on on there. The interview in the post is mostly lies. Deborah has sex issues and body image issues as well as low self esteem. what she really needs is a good shrink.
what will happen to her when all the hype and attention regarding the book will die down?….what a loser…
She didnt trash chassidim- she trashed Taharas Hamishpacha (mikva, nidda…) this is one of the 3 foundational values of our religion. Shababbos, Kashrus, Taharas Hamishpacha.
No one is trapped in williamsburg. she could have left when ever she wanted and she did leave….but why the hell is she not leaving willi and her family alone??? if she hates chassidim so much- then why does she keep posting videos of them on her web and speaking about them…it would stand to reason that she would run far away and stay away….
she says on the simon and shuster website – that she will feel uncomfortable for her son to read such intimate details…what about having some self respect and feeling uncomfortable with sharing distorted intimate details with the world???
and all my willi friends want to know “who wears a nightgown??!!!” she felt fat – and i see why- so she kept the lights closed and wore a fu&%$g night gown!!! sorry to burst anyone’s bubble- amongst all my chassidish friends we have a darn good bedroom life- each with our own spouse of course!
She grew up in a dysfunctional house and now wants to blame/ defame chassidim, judaism, halacha…Torah…
she says in the article she has a kardashianesque body…..who the hell is she kidding??? they should sue her for defamation!!!! she is chubby- thats all.
its clear that she did not write or publish the book alone…with all the media attention…..her mom probably helped her and financially supported her….
Most chasidim like to portray an image that they don’t think abt women ect, but in the bed room, it’s wild west!