The term open minded means something completely different when you are talking to frum people about shiduchim, it doesn’t actually mean that someone is open minded, it usually means that they found something about the girl or girls family different then their own and I have heard many in my day – I have also included one’s some friends of mine have told me and none of these are made up.
As an illustration I will tell a brief story, I once went to a shadchan in Monsey who told me that she noticed I was open minded because I wore a colored shirt on shabbos. She could have used the term “modern” but since she is in shidduchim I assumed she used the term open minded to show some point that I didn’t get. Either way, I wondered to myself if that meant all of the people seated at her shabbos table including her husband were closed minded since they were wearing white shirts?
The parentheses below are to show what was going on in their minds as the people said why the girl was open minded.
She’s an open minded girl because…
Her family has a dog (frum people are notoriously afraid of dogs, and so she must be open minded)
She used to snowboard (just like used car dealers, shadchans have to use every selling point they have at hand, even if she snowboarded once she must be open minded)
Her father wears a gray hat (there is some debate as to exactly what a gray hat means – but in the shidduch world it means anything other than black is open minded)
Her mother is an art teacher (regardless of whether her mother teaches the finer points of wood engraving or how to build sukkahs out of recycled popsicle sticks from kleins parve ice cream – art and frum don’t go together and hence she must be open minded)
She goes to stern (anyone who goes to stern over Touro must be more open minded)
She is studying to be anything besides PT, OT, Speech or Nursing (if a girl had the bals to break the regular routine and do something like accounting she must be different)
Her parents are baalei teshuva (I used to think it was a sure thing, but so many times they were baalei teshuva deniers – those folks who would never admit they used to be hippies – which meant they were just as bad as regular frummy parents – even crazier sometimes)
She’s chabad friendly (don’t listen to their marketing)
She doesn’t mind if you don’t wear a hat (doesn’t mind usually translates into, “after we get married things are gonna change)
She owns her own company (with daddy’s help anyone can “own” their own company)
She was a Pioneer at Camp Sternberg (I think this is the most common one I hear – all I wanna know is whether or not she knows of the girl involved in the hot dog story)
She is really into going to the gym (red flags)
She wants to make aliyah (that doesn’t mean she wont be a closed minded shabbos rioter once we get there)
visit Torah Live
I admit…this one was funny.
very funny, i laughed and snorted a lot
My wife was a Pioneer at Sternberg! And I had no idea what this signified until after I stepped on the glass.
This one is actually true.
And I really am open minded.
Heh. But why stop there?
If she went to College at all…
If she shows her TOES/FEET!!! And wears RED!!! And RED TOENAILPOLISH!!! OMG!!!
And she wants the guy to call her before the first date!!!
Also, what’s the sternberg hot dog story? I must really be out of it…
well I was talking for my type – I’m a modern dude with long hair – your obviously more frum than I
dude.. I love it.. hilarious! I used see these “open minds” all the time running around in the bars and clubs all over israel Talypiot, TA, even a few block from Gueula- 2 or 3 guys in the bathroom (hint) then friday afternoon in the shuk with their husbands/kids and their black hats and open minds… then I remember them saying.. your not religiuos – you have a ponytail and listening rock music
im like….keep up the bad image of jewry with your open mind
heh i went to sternberg, but I got kicked out before I was old enough to be in pioneers. 🙂
Here’s another:
“He writes a blog” (he’s completely removed from society and a complete douche)
How am I completely removed from society? Please explain that one…
…..if I need to explain…it only proves my point…
Says the guy reading the blog…
Damn, I became engaged too soon. This is the quirks of missing out on this crap lol.
I haven’t been on a date in 6 months, trust me I’m missing out of this stuff
If you’d do things like regular Jewish men – like get a haircut, maybe you wouldn’t have to wait 6 months between dates. I for one don’t like shaggy men, just shaggy dogs.
But who wants to be a regular Jewish man – I am anything but, its that I wait between dates – I don’t date – I hang out with girls and if something happens fine.
You mean you’re an UWS type?
I got another for busted up there.
Is afraid to show his real name (hides in a basement, or in a yeshivah on his blackberry, spewing hate comments all over the internet and is one of the more frequent commenters on YWN alawys blaming the worlds problems on tznius).
“Mike in Midwood” – is that really your REAL NAME?
PS – I think you are gay.
hmm, well i have 3 cats, go to the gym everyday, wear open toe shoes with dark purple nail polish on my toes (and hands), oy! i must be REALLY OPEN MINDED!
People are just retarded, whether it’s the shadchans who only want to deal with 18 to 25 year old fit-the-mold-types or the parents of the dater or the dater themselves. I recently dealt with a BT who was trying to be an FFB that a shadchan came up with for me.
Why did he turn me down? Because I go away for Shabbos every week. He was so sure that he knew a shul in my area where there is observant families (the shul with all the divorced people?) that he felt he couldn’t go out with me becuase I don’t eat by any of them. Furthermore, he asked me over and over who I eat by in my own neighborhood. I repeatedly told him, “I don’t stay home on Shabbos.” He said, “but when you do.” “I don’t.” “Ok, but, when you do stay home.” “I go away every single solitary Shabbos. I would be happy to give you contact info for families that DO know me.” “I have to go.”
Michal, let’s be realistic here, you cannot just blame the system when it comes to issues finding you a match.. Sure, you can say this one had issues, but there are plenty of people that could say the same about you, too.. I am starting to think that there are too many issues, and not enough shidduch, in the system and it’s users..
what does a frum guy mean when he says he’s frum but open minded? usually he thinks open minded means horny.
yeh but everyone’s horny, not just frum guys – frum guys are probably less horny because sexually active folks are the horniest of all
Sorry Hesh, they’re worse. Not only are they sexually frustrated, they’re ignorant, conflicted, have no normal outlet and make it worse by not knowing how to get along with women.
I agree with Anon. Sexually active may be the horniest, but when a frum guy says he’s “open minded” it usually means that a) he expects me to sleep with him after the first or second date. b) no social skills AT ALL in regards to females or even mixed company. and c) apparently thinks that Sex in the City is real and people with no chemistry or interest in each other are CONSTANTLY having sex. One guy like this I dumped after a couple dates (I said “there simply wasn’t any chemistry between us.” real reason? you’re a psycho!) replied that we should just be lovers then instead. WTF?! He was supposed to be shomer negiah, and we hadn’t held hands let alone anything else. Where did THAT come from?!
How would you know????????????
That’s what it means in the secular world. See Craigslist…
Open minded means he’ll still grope you.
Very true. Open minded = different, not willing to see other points of view.
Met my fifth grade rebbi last year and he had this to say: “Artists are stupid.”
Hahha, he’s jealous.
Heshy-
yeah, i don’t know that that’s true abt sexually active people being the horniest; a lot of that has to do with background…
can you tell me why frum people are so terrified of dogs?
and also, yeah what was the hot dog story?
ps, what does it make a girl if she (gasp!) wears pants under her skirt in public?
Pants under skirt makes a girl.. well covered. That’s about it.
I went to Sternberg for like 8 years. I go to the gym AND I’ve gone snowboarding more than once! I also have piercings and I majored in Business.
But my father still wears a black hat and my mother babysits, so it all balances out my open mindedness.
I’m a business major right now at Brooklyn College. I think there could be worse things. I see that forms of business jobs come behind: Speech Therapist, teacher, OT, Social Worker, nurse… THEN business related fields when you look the lists of girls and their occupations for shidduchim. What you don’t see is doctor and lawyer unless they are-chas v’Shalom-modern, well, rarely… there are ALWAYS exceptions… that’s what these knit wit old biddy wannabe “shadchans” should know.
Whats a Pioneer? The Hot Dog Story?
So glad I’m in redneckville and out of the loop on all this craziness.
What category would I be thrown in?
Evil? 😀
This is what passes for “open minded”?
Truly, the norms among the frum are just half a flea’s pecker more inclusive than the Taliban
Uh, Frum? Quit screwin’ around.
The. Hot. Dog.
Story.
I am a gay, orthodox, Democrat.
Boy, must I be open minded!!!!!!!
The courtesy of Snopes.
Let’s try that again
The Hot Dog Story courtesy of Snopes.com
My girl would need a salami
That means she’s a ho. Think about it. STRETCHED out.
Avrumy,
how can one be gay and orthodox? that’s an oxymoron.
The same way you can be left-handed and orthodox. You just are. You are probably equating “being” gay with “doing” forbidden acts. A common error.
why do frummies have to make everything so framisht all the time? open-minded means more liberal and accepting of others who are drastically different than they. sheesh! or should i be saying “oy ge vult”?
i don’t object to frum guys being horny, not at all, but i object to the way they think that makes them openminded.
or that they are somehow atypical.
Anonymous, gay is about who you desire. Being Orthodox is about what you do and believe. You can be attracted to people of the same sex, but if you don’t engage in forbidden relations with them you can obey all the commandments.
For example, let’s take bacon and cholent. One of them is delicious. The other tastes more like unwashed ass-in-a-pot. Does admitting that make you a less observant Jew? Only if you fry up bacon on Shabbos instead of getting out the cholent dish.
Heshy, you get funnier all the time! Great post !
Perhaps it would be easier to come up with examples of not open minded. I have several.
“open minded” as a phrase has no definitive meaning anymore..
I was known as the girl who attempted suicide. Let’s face it, I was really OPEN-MINDED!
Adam, that’s funny and so true about the Cholent.
Taxidermist, your infamy makes you “out of the box,” not just “open-minded.” When they say “Out of the box” that’s usually a sign of something big. Like the girl with purple polish and piercings. The polish makes her open-minded. Piercings…”out of the box.”
Hesh, I went to pioneers, was a pioneer aid, pioneer specialty and chief pioneer specialty, go to the gym…but wait, theres more…I married Flickens and moved to the Tundra of western New York, so I guess you can’t get more open minded than that 🙂 AND…I know a lot more than the hot dog story(but that’s the nature of my business)!
Have people ever gotten together to date through this site. I would think that the people who read these posts have at least ONE thing in common…
Ya know lawschool, I’ve been thinking the same thing…. Besides, considering how sucky most (ok, ALL the ones I’ve encoutered but I’m willing to be open-minded (he he) and consider that there are sites out there I am not familiar with) of these frum dating sites are, it could only be an improvement…..
True hot dog story:
When my cuzn was in camp there was this girl in her bunk who in the middle of the night snuck into the camp kitchen and got a frozen hot dog and snuck back in her bunk room to use it. It got stuck in her and they had to call hatzolah and her dad was the hatzolah member…. very embarrassing/akward!