Of course, he does understate things a bit. In Israel the sacred places are not open to all. Only Jews, not Muslims, may pray at the holiest site in Judaism the Temple Mount.
I don’t. The Temple Mount itself has a mosque plopped down on top. The Israeli government gives Muslims more rights to sacred sites than they do to Jews. Jews get arrested for praying there.
you’re not religious, the mosque isn’t sacred to you. grow tf up. if you really think arabs are treated as equals in Israel go there and see instead of posturing on the internet while other peoples’ children die.
A. Nuran accidentaly left out the word “not”, presumably.
This has got to be one of the most confusing threads ever.
Writers: please proofread before pressing “Submit”.
Readers: please use your brains to see obvious typos.
Wow.
You’re right, Arabs don’t have equal treatment, they have better treatment. Arabs are allowed to pray at the holiest site in Judaism while Jews are not. And Arabs are not required to join the military, while most Jews are.
Yes I know, reread the statement you posted previously. It said that only Jews can pray there and not Muslims. I’m guessing that it was a typo.
It was a typo. Should re-read more carefully before submitting.
Yes, MUSLIMS have MORE rights than Jews when it comes to Jewish holy places in Israel. Muslims can pray on the Temple Mount, Jews’ holiest site. Jews cannot.
@A. Nuran,
This is slightly tangential but I was wondering your take as an atheist/agnostic(at least thats the impression I got of you from reading our comments on this site) on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, as being jewish gives me a natural bias to supporting Israel.
Thank you.
That would take a long time to thoroughly discuss. Here are some of the high points…
To my mind Jews are an ethnic group with a tribal religion and a couple tribal languages. People get confused at the combination. I couldn’t stop being Jewish any more than Emperor Akihito could stop being Japanese even if we gave up Judaism and Shinto and became Sikhs.
Jews have been living in Palestine continuously for thousands of years. Well documented. No doubt about it. Other Jews had been moving there, buying land and so on for a long time, accelerated by the creation of modern Zionism and the clear evidence that no host country is really safe.
The compromise under which Palestine was divided up was a typical UN clusterfark. It pleased no-one and was designed to be unworkable, kind of like the UN-mandated partition of parts of the former Yugoslavia. But it did work, despite the best efforts of many to wipe out the Jewish parts.
In the early years about 700,000 Arabs were displaced and a similar number of Jews living in Arab countries. At the time the UNHCR said it was the world’s easiest refugee situation to resolve. But due to the emerging (and politically immature) state of Arab polity it just wasn’t going to happen. Nobody wanted the displaced Arabs. Israel was too good an enemy, especially when you needed to focus anger away from your own failures as a government. Israel was going through an expansionist phase for a while.
So you have the Black September, several wars, the destruction of Lebanon, Syrian expansionism, Egyptian demographic troubles combined with political corruption, Israeli politics and cultural transitions, Great Power squabbling over the oil and all the rest.
So what have we got? In forty years the Arabs have won the propaganda war. It’s that simple. Israel can’t annex the land won in 1967. If it does, it will be demographically swamped. If it lets it all go it will be indefensible. The status quo is grinding it down morally and psychologically.
Israel is tiny, but it’s still the most convenient whipping boy not only for Arabs but now for the entire Muslim world. None of the established states wants real war, but official peace would lose most of them a lot of street cred.
Nobody wants to do diddly for the non-Israeli Arabs of Palestine. Fatah and Hamas are corrupt. Fatah can be dealt with, but Hamas can’t. It won’t be satisfied with anything but the destruction of Israel, and it’s in the ascendancy. Meanwhile the people there are miserable.
It’s a lousy unstable situation, and I don’t think we’ll see any resolution until the Cubs win back-to-back World Series
I’ve been in workplaces with Jews and Arabs from Palestine [*]. Interestingly, they tend to work very well together, especially when the Jews are Israeli.
[*] “Palestinian” used to mean “Jew”, another example of the success of Arab PR
Thank you for your Insights
Btw I would be fascinated to read a guest post by you on your “hashkafas” on things like this and in general, I’m sure other Frum satire readers feel the same
One of the most clear-headed analyses I’ve seen in a while, A. Nuran!
fanatical Americans are really not helping the situation. Israel is only destroying itself with the treatment of Palestinians. I hope you’re amused as you cheer on the destruction of Israel and lose us whatever support we had in the wider world. It’s realy not a joke, it makes me sick.
That’s an under-rated point. A lot of the Big LURRRVVV American Evangelicals have for Israel these days has a really dark side. It’s not that they think Jews are swell people. It’s because their End Times mythology has a special place for us.
Those of us who don’t become “completed” or “perfected” to use the terms of Palin, Coulter, the Baptists, The Family and so on, are supposed to make aliyah. But we’re not talking about going to a happy, healthy Israel. Oh no. We’re supposed to be attacked by all the Muslims plus Russia. We’ll either mostly be killed or saved in the nick of time by Jeebus Hisself.
Makes more sense than most proposals.
Of course, he does understate things a bit. In Israel the sacred places are not open to all. Only Jews, not Muslims, may pray at the holiest site in Judaism the Temple Mount.
You have that reversed.
I don’t. The Temple Mount itself has a mosque plopped down on top. The Israeli government gives Muslims more rights to sacred sites than they do to Jews. Jews get arrested for praying there.
you’re not religious, the mosque isn’t sacred to you. grow tf up. if you really think arabs are treated as equals in Israel go there and see instead of posturing on the internet while other peoples’ children die.
A. Nuran accidentaly left out the word “not”, presumably.
This has got to be one of the most confusing threads ever.
Writers: please proofread before pressing “Submit”.
Readers: please use your brains to see obvious typos.
Wow.
You’re right, Arabs don’t have equal treatment, they have better treatment. Arabs are allowed to pray at the holiest site in Judaism while Jews are not. And Arabs are not required to join the military, while most Jews are.
Yes I know, reread the statement you posted previously. It said that only Jews can pray there and not Muslims. I’m guessing that it was a typo.
It was a typo. Should re-read more carefully before submitting.
Yes, MUSLIMS have MORE rights than Jews when it comes to Jewish holy places in Israel. Muslims can pray on the Temple Mount, Jews’ holiest site. Jews cannot.
@A. Nuran,
This is slightly tangential but I was wondering your take as an atheist/agnostic(at least thats the impression I got of you from reading our comments on this site) on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, as being jewish gives me a natural bias to supporting Israel.
Thank you.
That would take a long time to thoroughly discuss. Here are some of the high points…
To my mind Jews are an ethnic group with a tribal religion and a couple tribal languages. People get confused at the combination. I couldn’t stop being Jewish any more than Emperor Akihito could stop being Japanese even if we gave up Judaism and Shinto and became Sikhs.
Jews have been living in Palestine continuously for thousands of years. Well documented. No doubt about it. Other Jews had been moving there, buying land and so on for a long time, accelerated by the creation of modern Zionism and the clear evidence that no host country is really safe.
The compromise under which Palestine was divided up was a typical UN clusterfark. It pleased no-one and was designed to be unworkable, kind of like the UN-mandated partition of parts of the former Yugoslavia. But it did work, despite the best efforts of many to wipe out the Jewish parts.
In the early years about 700,000 Arabs were displaced and a similar number of Jews living in Arab countries. At the time the UNHCR said it was the world’s easiest refugee situation to resolve. But due to the emerging (and politically immature) state of Arab polity it just wasn’t going to happen. Nobody wanted the displaced Arabs. Israel was too good an enemy, especially when you needed to focus anger away from your own failures as a government. Israel was going through an expansionist phase for a while.
So you have the Black September, several wars, the destruction of Lebanon, Syrian expansionism, Egyptian demographic troubles combined with political corruption, Israeli politics and cultural transitions, Great Power squabbling over the oil and all the rest.
So what have we got? In forty years the Arabs have won the propaganda war. It’s that simple. Israel can’t annex the land won in 1967. If it does, it will be demographically swamped. If it lets it all go it will be indefensible. The status quo is grinding it down morally and psychologically.
Israel is tiny, but it’s still the most convenient whipping boy not only for Arabs but now for the entire Muslim world. None of the established states wants real war, but official peace would lose most of them a lot of street cred.
Nobody wants to do diddly for the non-Israeli Arabs of Palestine. Fatah and Hamas are corrupt. Fatah can be dealt with, but Hamas can’t. It won’t be satisfied with anything but the destruction of Israel, and it’s in the ascendancy. Meanwhile the people there are miserable.
It’s a lousy unstable situation, and I don’t think we’ll see any resolution until the Cubs win back-to-back World Series
I’ve been in workplaces with Jews and Arabs from Palestine [*]. Interestingly, they tend to work very well together, especially when the Jews are Israeli.
[*] “Palestinian” used to mean “Jew”, another example of the success of Arab PR
Thank you for your Insights
Btw I would be fascinated to read a guest post by you on your “hashkafas” on things like this and in general, I’m sure other Frum satire readers feel the same
One of the most clear-headed analyses I’ve seen in a while, A. Nuran!
fanatical Americans are really not helping the situation. Israel is only destroying itself with the treatment of Palestinians. I hope you’re amused as you cheer on the destruction of Israel and lose us whatever support we had in the wider world. It’s realy not a joke, it makes me sick.
That’s an under-rated point. A lot of the Big LURRRVVV American Evangelicals have for Israel these days has a really dark side. It’s not that they think Jews are swell people. It’s because their End Times mythology has a special place for us.
Those of us who don’t become “completed” or “perfected” to use the terms of Palin, Coulter, the Baptists, The Family and so on, are supposed to make aliyah. But we’re not talking about going to a happy, healthy Israel. Oh no. We’re supposed to be attacked by all the Muslims plus Russia. We’ll either mostly be killed or saved in the nick of time by Jeebus Hisself.
Awesome!
Muslims have also more rights than Jews when it comes to airport security in the U.S.
Jews get a full naked pat-down; muslims do not.
I’ve never gotten a “full naked pat-down”. Muslim friends get “enhanced inspection” all the time. Randomly, of course.
Targeted inspection makes a heck of a lot more security sense than random inspection.