Punk Torah tells us why he thinks tattoos are kosher, of course if we use his reasoning – we might as well just rewrite the torah to fit with “modern” times.
Punk Torah tells us why he thinks tattoos are kosher, of course if we use his reasoning – we might as well just rewrite the torah to fit with “modern” times.
a heter? that’s funny. house of hillel envelope being pushed, but it works for him.
one word, “douschbag”
Tell us what you really think, anonymous 😉
what does it mean when you say you are an observant jew who’s interpretation of Judaism do you observe?
I am sure he is a nice person and I would not be against being friendly with that guy but he seems to have been doing a little bit too much marijuana smoking. He commits the classic Jewish fallacy of saying “we need to keep it in context”. The Torah is already in context, it is clear in what it says. What these kinds of people do is apply their wishful thinking and then justify whatever they want to. I have a blog post on “context” more if you want to read it.
He might just as well throw away all the commandments and do which ones he likes to do.
That’s the problem, though. Whos “context” are you going to pick? We all have biases and prejudices which influence our faith or lack of faith. This sense that one-form-of-Judaism-is-right-and-anyone-who-doesn’t-follow-it-is-wrong is ego-centric, i think.
You pick the context of God himself. Torah, supposedly, comes from God, it is a divine book of God’s commandments. Therefore there can only be one correct way to properly interpret the Torah. That is the way God would interpret the Torah. If there are many different interpretations of the Torah then they cannot all be correct. This is why it is important to follow Orthodox Judaism because it understands the Torah the way it is allegedly supposed to be understood by extending the Rabbinic tradition. If you throw that away and interpret the Torah by your own wishful thinking, the way PunkTorah does, then you are not following God you are following yourself and so you might just as well throw away the Torah and live by your own views. This is the serious problem that I have with any form of Judaism that is not Orthodox. I think the more liberal forms of Judaism are more virtuous than Orthodox Judaism but at the same time they are self-contradictory and hypocritical. If one is a Jewish believer he must be Orthodox. There is no room in between, one can either be a skeptic (like myself) and reject Jewish beliefs because I see them as wrong or one is a Jewish believer but then he must practice Orthodox Judaism.
You bring up that we all have biases and prejudices. My question is what is the problem with bias? Why should bias be avoided? To put it poetically, why are we biased against bias? I am bias against anyone who is part of the KKK, does that mean I should learn to be un-biased against the KKK? No. The point is that some kinds of biases and prejudices are justified while others are not. Being biased against KKK is justified, being biased about hiring women at the workplace is not. So it really all depends on some kinds of bias. Bias and prejudice does not need to be avoided, rather unjustified bias needs to be avoided.
“You pick the context of God himself. Torah, supposedly, comes from God, it is a divine book of God’s commandments. Therefore there can only be one correct way to properly interpret the Torah. That is the way God would interpret the Torah.”
So what you are saying is that the only way is God’s way, and you know what God would say about everything. If there is only this way and you know it, you know everything God would say. So are you God then? I mean, if there is only this one interpretation, and you obviously know it, because that is what you are saying, then you must know the mind of God, and only God can do that.
not any more ego-centric than jews your own adventure. potato, clamato. at the end of the day, a problem is still people sitting around defining how anything should be for anyone other than themselves.
As a good “bt” I would never get a tattoo, but I support my non-Jewish friends who decide to get them, as well as those who are Jewish and not frum. (Check out the “Jews and Tattoos” group on facebook). Recently I even went with a friend to a tattoo parlor in the East Village to look at albums of tattoos. A weird scene when a straight female frummie, wearing appropriate below the knee skirt and to the elbow sleeves, walks into a tattoo parlor with a gay male Catholic guy.
I wanna meet a Frum Goth! That’s totally awesome.
thx! I feel that people can be frum w/o alienating those who believe and practice differently. People who get tattoos are just one example.
This. I totally agree 🙂
yes.
It seems like there are lots of people (in both the U.S. and Israel) who are totally frum yet they’re into something different — punk, rap, veganism, organic farming, meditation, rural communes, etc. Somebody should write a book about them — showing you don’t have to be like everybody else to be frum. Maybe I’ll have time one day…
that’s a great idea, YY. And the first one you should interview for the book is… Heshy!
there are plenty of Lubavitchers like that…. that’s why lubavitch is amazing
There are seem to be a lot of people who are Chabad-oriented but who are totally independent and don’t have any institutional connection with Chabad. I’m thinking of people like R’ Gutman Locks, who was once a hippie Hindu guru and now spends his time putting into practice his unconventional but very nice approach to tefillin outreach at the Kotel (see the video below). His autobiography (called Coming Down to Earth) is probably the funniest Jewish books I have read — highly recommended.
http://mysticalpaths.blogspot.com/2010/03/from-kotel-pray-for-your-family.html
For an example of a commune-living alternative medicine rabbi (Charedi even (I think)!):
http://www.thejc.com/judaism/judaism-features/the-alternative-medic-who-practices-kabbalah
Thanks, anonymous — good idea!
The really amusing facebook tattoo group is the “Hebrew tattoo” group, so many people with messed up hebrew forever on their skin! I have never been a fan of tattoos…
The “heter” stuff aside or the way he came off, he is not making this up. I’ve even had frum rabbis say that tattoos may not be assur today, because the Torah does specifically refer to tattoos as related to an act of mourning and the context of the tattoos has changed today, not the context of the Torah. I think Jews are sensitive to them, understandably, because of the Holocaust, and because of that whole made up nonsense about cemeteries, and tend to go overboard way beyond whatever the issur may be.
As disturbing as I found the tattoo with Hashem’s holy name, I stopped watching his video after his mention of a ‘Jewish porn star’ who took it up the ____.
How vulgar and crude. I cringed.
Anyone heard of nibul peh?
We are a nation called to be a goy kadosh.
This new generation of cool with-it indie ‘religious’ bloggers is alarming.
Patrick, you seem like a well-intentioned, nice guy who loves your Judaism and is sincerely trying to do good, but this kind of stuff is a chillul-Hashem. Have you thought about spending some serious time in a yeshiva, for at least half a year or so, just sitting and learning?
We have a Torah (a written and Oral tradition) and its timeless mitzvos, Biblical and Rabbinic, and they all are the ratzon Hashem.
To create your own brand of Judaism is reckless and doomed to fail.
Adam – I thought you’re not reading me anymore
Yeah, it’s been awhile, a few months, since I came to your site…. but today I decided to drop in, and saw this video of a Yid with Hashem’s name tattooed on him talking about a bas-Yisrael in an extremely crude fashion.
Reb Yid Hesh, I really really don’t get why you post this stuff….
Coming to D-Town anytime soon?
Anyone who say there is a heter for tattoos is sadly mistaken, as cool as I think tattoos may be.
I don’t think the guy is allowed in the bathroom or shower with that Y-H-V-H tattoo uncovered. He might not even be allowed to remove it.
I’m not talking about heterim, but rather straight-up halacha.There are frum Rabbis (not even especially left wing) who have told me that they think it just flat out might not be assur. Not that they go on record with it, because it just wouldn’t fly in the frum community. But as far as the technical halachik status, I see it as not as black and white as you’re saying it is, and not sure what you’re basing it on to say otherwise.
I’m personally very skeptical of anyone (especially a rabbi) calling themselves frum and giving a heter for an issur deoraysah, especially when their is no REAL good reason. Just because tattoos aren’t only/mainly used for idol worship anymore, that doesn’t make tattooing OK. It’s that simple.
I’m not talking “heter”. Not sure why you keep saying it. That implies its being assur but getting specific permission, which you’re right, would be a ridiculous thing to do. Not trying to debate whether you believe it is assur and convince you it’s not. But the thing that’s throwing me about your response is, what are you basing it on that it’s “that simple”? What makes you so sure that it’s impossible for 2 frum Rabbeiim to come to different halachik conclusions? Yeah, that never happens. What makes you so sure that this is impossible. Are you personally a halachik authority? (I don’t know,asking), and have you discussed this with all other halachik authorities? it’s one thing to believe it’s assur, that I get, but another thing to be so sure that nobody could think otherwise. The vibe I hear from you, and again asking because I don’t want to assume, is that you’ve got some sort of Jewish almost visceral reaction that goes above and beyond an actual halachik discussion. Kind of like (can of worms) the gay thing. Wondering where that comes from for you for this particular halachik issue.
Devorah,
I’ve got the chumash, mefarshim and shulchan aruch all backing me saying tattooing is not allowed.
I don’t know what you call frum, or how these so called rabbis claim they are frum, if they’re claiming there is nothing wrong tothe point where you don’t even need a heter to get a tattoo.
Smells reform to me.
This clown in the video oboviously still has a lot to learn. When he figures out that he has to cover his arm every time he takes a leak, or that he might have to shower with a shirt on, you might hear him say “doh”.
Devorah,
I have a friend who needs to get in touch with these Rabbis. please email me at bridgeguitarschool.com.
sorry, bridgeguitarschool@gmail.com
Can’t you technically make the He into a Chet or something and then remove it.
Yochanan,
Possibly.
Hesh please remind me why you like this guy bec i cant figure it out i cant tell if those videos on his you tube page are serious speaking of you tube when are you going to put up new videos?
I put up 1 video per week – but I have been thinking of going on a yeshiva memory video rampage
Btw, everyone should check out http://www.badhebrew.com/ It is hilarious and full of win.
I love badhebrew.com!
Asur or not, you’re gonna regret it when you’re 70.
“Punk’ are you a “baal teshuva?”
Something I’ve wondered about that prohibition but cant check on my own due to my lack of Hebrew; is the prohibition against ritual scarification for purposes of mourning or tribal affiliation (thus putting the negative commandment in the “dont do as the pagans do” class) or against what we now know as tattooing?
Chris,
Tattoing is called kesuvat kaka, specifically outlawed in the Torah. Scarification is referred to as sarates, also outlawed.
Thanks for the clarification
Why dont some of you grow up. Stop looking for crazy attention. If you are foolish to put a tatoo on your body ,you are an idiot.
Didn’t watch the video, but IIRC there is a minority opinion that only tattoos which are the name of a foreign god are forbidden.
Again PunkTorah proves what a d bag he truelly is… not only did he commit a literal Chillul Hashem on his arm, he continues to do so everytime he showers. again the big aguement I had with him about how much of a d bag he was months ago has now expanded to this. He assured me he was no hipster, but here we see him in all his skinny jean glory. bottom line, he obviously knows no Torah at all, I would say he reads as much torah as the church down the street and uses the same interpretations too.
D-bag? Ha!
“I would say he reads as much torah as the church down the street and uses the same interpretations too.”
I guess you would know.
You are all such wonderful, G-dly people. I think you should be proud of yourselves and all of your judging and hating.
“The rabbis of the Talmud distinguished between two main types of insult: that which causes embarrassment and verbal oppression. The primary biblical injunction against the first type of insult is, “Thou shalt surely rebuke thy neighbor, and not suffer sin upon him” (Lev. 19:17). Thus, wrongdoing should be admonished, but in a way that will not cause embarrassment.”
“The talmudic formulation of the sin of insult is halbanat panim (lit. “blanching of the face”) which, when committed in public, is equated with murder and deprives the offender of his share in the world to come (BM 58b). This idea is emphasized in the talmudic statement: “Let a man rather cast himself into a fiery furnace than shame his fellow in public” (BM 59a).”
I’m glad you love to judge and insult people. It just means there will be more room for me in Olam Ha-Ba.
Keep up the good work! Driving people away is what is making the “progressive” movement so much stronger every day.
Yitzak give me a break, firstly it could be argued that this is no public place. And yidden have been calling apokoros on the table for millenia… he is an apokoros, and read your gemorrah on what should technically be done to him. I think he is getting off easy with a d bag!
Secondly, Your right I would know , and for me its good to know what the Yoshki Followers are doing, and teaching… I have a much deeper understanding of how crazy x-ian doctrine is then you could possibably have, and i probably have more faith in Yiddishkeit than you as a direct result of that. so it works to my favor.
You can disagree with someone and not put them down, especially if it’s a stranger.
Let’s try it your way.
I’m so glad you know all about everything. You know more about Christianity than the Christians and more Judaism than the Jews. And you obviously have more faith in Yiddishkeit than me, even though you’ve never spoken to me before you know all the things that I know. You are truly amazing! I don’t think Heshy and everybody else here knows how much of a blessing it is to have you on the comments giving people your teachings. Patrick should be flattered you deigned to even recognize him. I’m so glad to have been chastised by you and put in my place. Now that I know you are the master teacher of Torah you say you are I will be sure to show you the proper respect.
None.
D bag.
It could be argued that the sky is green but that dont make it so
Yitzack,
I am not claiming to know more Judaism then the jews. That statement doesn’t make sense. how can you know more Judaism? Judaism is a word pertaining to a people or a religion that is followed by said people. I can know Torah, but to me its impossible to know Judasim. do we study Judaism or Torah?
I don’t even come close to being master of the Torah, And I don’t know nearly as much as many people on this blog who grew up in cheder.
But I know enough to know that it takes a truelly cocky d bag to get the unspeakable name of G-d on tattoed his arm just so he can blend his hipster wannabe punk cool dude image with his jewishness… He uses judaism for the “look at me I got spirituality” factor. Wannabe buddists do the same thing. And Yes nerdy punk dweeb is the new hipster trendy guy type.. Its like those lamo college kids i see in a crowd smoking a hookah at middle eastern restaurants. It just all creeps me the hell out, its so corny how cool people think they are being, when really man you just look like a moron.
skinny jeans are for morons that will walk around all day long miserable and constricted so that they have an image to portray to their audience. This kids portrays, i am jewish, but i am “COOL HIPSTER Jewish”. With my cool hipster jewish tatts and my punk rock quasi jewish band. The funny thing is that like any other assimilation the first and only thing to go is the only true thing that makes anyone jewish, the Torah. Lox and bagels do not make someone jewish. The Catskill mountains do not make someone jewish.
The Torah is the the only truely Jewish feature, and everyone that wants to fit into american culture pitches the Torah or twists it for their own purposes. Forget it— this kid is a poser yidden and a poser punk I do not regard him in anyway because I choose not to. If walked down the mearsherim with a short sleeve shirt on he would be stoned, not to death but definately stoned, how much more public can that be? to have stones hurled at you in a real setting? This cyber world is nothing man. he is publicly and poudly blaspheming the name of G-d. Again he is getting off easy.
Btw I was adopted by a yiddish family which is why I converted, I am an orphan and while I have been to many churches because my foster families/ or group homes would take me there I never was a true christian.
@ frum goth
Hi frumgoth, do you have a facebook? I’m part of a group on there called “Jewish Goth”, and we’d love to have you!
@ frum goth
Hi frumgoth, do you have a facebook? I’m part of a group on there called “Jewish Goth”, and we’d love to have you!
Had yto do this again becasue I forgot to hit the little thing that makes it notify of responses-lol.