Since you had yourself thrown out of the group (the Off The Derech group), here’s a shaylah for the OTD dayan.
Advice needed. I sometimes ride the subway, and when an older person comes into my subway car, I want to give up my seat if there aren’t any available, the problem is that I still look frum, and I know that if I get up, I will be making a kiddush hashem, and I’ll end up making religious Jews look better. Advice?
First of all, I’m not sure I could be called an OTD dayan, the closest I’ve ever come to actually being off the derech was during a road trip out west when for 2 weeks of vacation I didn’t keep shabbos, kosher, and went swimming during the 9 days, of course many poskim hold that if you’re on vacation you can lax your regular observances and based on my OTD friends I was never off the derech. I guess I should just say that I feel great pangs of gaiva and am struggling to be kovesh my yetzer at the thought that one of the OTD chazal has called me a dayan.
I know this may sound odd, but I know exactly how you feel, it sends the wrong signals when someone makes frum Jews look good, because in reality they are one of the few groups we can make blanket statements about (other groups include Asian women drivers, gay interior designers, and formerly frum Jews) and be right most of the time. In New York it’s doubly hard, because you have to look frum or else some of your OTD buddies might see you and accuse you of infiltrating the club and not ever being frum enough to have gone off the derech (my fellow dayanim have already written several tshuvos wondering whether or not BT’s or converts can be classified as OTD)
I find that OTD’s also feel the need to dress frum so they can make an extra chillul Hashem when the time is right. How else would we be able to stereotype chassidim at the strip clubs, without seeing actual chassidim at strip clubs? It’s as if, you have to look frum in order to really go OTD because it’s too easy to eat bacon cheeseburgers while waxing poetic about Hitchens if you look like any other Joe.
Obviously you know where this is going, you can’t possibly abandon your levush. You also must give up your seat, because in order to become OTD one of the first steps is to become a raging liberal and raging liberals tend to do things to show how much they care, like giving up seats for old people. So here are some ideas that may help you avoid making a kiddush hashem.
As one responder on Facebook stated, you can punch someone else as you get up. Making a scene is always a good way to show that you’re kind hearted, yet you’re still one of those Hymies that Jesse Jackson likes to call us.
You can also mumble something racist under your breath as you get up.
Get up and start complaining about the stupid rule of getting up.
Take off your yarmulke before you get up.
Get up and knock someone who isn’t old over and take their place at one of the poles.
Don’t get up and explain your reason, I’m sure all those New York Post readers will understand.
Maybe you could get some sort of OTD heter from the other chazal to get out of looking so frum all the time.
Remember, anyone can send me questions, shayala’s, requests for chizuk, and mussar. I am more than happy to share Torah, words of wisdom, and my vast halachic knowledge with you all. Send all requests to frumsatire@gmail.com
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If you are frum and you want to get up for someone on the train, you have to give the person gay sex and then OTDers will be ok with it.
This is really a tough one. As always in such cases I recommend asking ones local non orthodox shaigetz for further advice.
Or ask a rav who’s answering will definately be “no” regardless of what you are asking.
Some hold that if it’s Betty White you should grab her tush as you get up, thereby announcing that you’re not the frum guy who’s trying to sneak a peak at the hot shiksa standing nearby.
I think the reason OTD folks dress somewhat frum at strip clubs is more to signal to the dancers why they are interacting so badly (if they are newly OTD anyway.)
Just a heads up to people who think this “shayla” gives a deep insight into the OTD community, I’ll quote the person who wrote that “shayla” in the OTD group: “I do get up. This was a satirical post for the amusement of my sheigetz friends.”
And believe me, OTD jews aren’t bothering to make a chillul hashem; there are plenty of frummies doing the job quite well on their own. E.g. Suing make-up companies, stoning firefighters, etc.
The make-up lady has a point, it IS false advertising on part of L’Oreal. There are actual secular, American laws about false advertising.
No one is a bigger chillul Hashem than Yeshiva boys. They are like little rats who have never seen the sun and behave in the worst ways in public because they have no social skills only fictional book smarts.
Thank God for the OTD’s because making chillul hashem’s would become a full time job, I guess it doesn’t require learning English and getting a Ged then.
?
“Jewish Atheist” is a contradiction in terms, isn’t it? If you are one, you can’t be the other.
Then I guess Orthodox yeshivot don’t need money from secular atheist Israelis. Dipshit.
Why? I’ll take money from anyone.
Why would Jewish Atheist be a contradiction? Jewish describes my cultural background, history, genetic heritage, how I was raised, etc. while atheist describes my religious beliefs. No contradiction at all.
Agreed
Our gedolim have instructed us not to count atheists in a minyon. Kefira is worse than idolatry. No Jewish community a few hundred years ago would consider you Jewish in any halachic sense. Ever hear the Talmudic saying, “The best doctors go to hell?” It’s because the best doctors soon start to see themselves as God. Which is the implied conclusion that comes with atheism (that you shape and mold your destiny and that nothing is above you) while idol worshippers at least admit something is above them. This “being Jewish even after abandoning Judaism” thing seems like a modern scam.
I actually went otd just to avoid making a kiddush hashem. 😉
Doing the right thing no matter what others think of it or you is the bedrock of character and integrity. Why should your integrity depend on what strangers think or their perceptions about your religious affiliation?
Assuming that “hashem” is your name for God…..What does God have to do with the way anybody behaves!
What is the term if you are Orthodox in terms of Shabbos, tzitzit, dovening and outwordly keep Kosher, but in secret eat treil ALL things treif?
I believe the term is “hypocrite.”
True. I’m screwed.